Paralympian to Protector: Rory's Insurance Journey

From Paralympic Athlete to Finance

Daniel: Rory, we're back.

Rory: We are, mate.

Daniel: For another episode of the Blueprint Podcast. Last session was pretty good with Jono, talking about the ins and outs of that side of our business, which is KiwiSaver.

Rory: Absolutely.

Daniel: So, you're such an integral part of our Blueprint team, protecting all the clients who are in need throughout their financial journeys. We really appreciate that. As co-host, we want to make sure people know who they're dealing with and who to listen to for every podcast. So, this episode is all about you, man -- that insurance guy.

Rory: Yeah, no, that's really exciting, Dan. It's nice to be in the limelight, eh?

Daniel: Yeah. So where do we want to kick things off? I mean, you're a pretty modest guy, but as I've gotten to know you over the time we've been in business together, there's so much to the Rory sort of lore, as we call it.

Rory: I'm five years in insurance now, it's gone in a flash. Before that, I spent ten years as an athlete.

Daniel: Absolutely, man. Top athlete.

Rory: Yeah, I went to a Paralympic Games. So, I'm a below-knee amputee. A lot of listeners and viewers won't know that about me. I was run over by a truck when I was three years old and had my leg amputated below the knee. When I was about 25, I was at a crossroads in life, to be honest. In my early 20s, I was a little bit lost and didn't have a lot of direction. An opportunity came along one day -- Paralympics New Zealand were recruiting athletes and looking for people to go to London 2012. This was back in 2009. I got a hold of the application form, signed up, and went to training. Long story short, I got invited to move down to Dunedin and train full-time as a javelin thrower.

Daniel: Incredible. A one-legged javelin thrower. Did you throw in high school? What was your relationship with javelin before?

Rory: So, I threw in high school, in year nine, first year of school, athletics day. It was a fun event, but I was more interested in team sports -- cricket and rugby -- so I didn't take to it then. The journey would have been a whole lot different if I picked it up then. I wasn't really aware of the Paralympics as a young fella. I had a career of about 10 years, went to four world championships, and went to a Paralympic Games in Rio.

Daniel: Yeah. And it was awesome. It was life-changing for me. And, eventually, as you do as a sports person, you get to the end of your career, whether you like to or not, and so you start wondering what's after. I had a finance degree and I was in my early thirties by this stage, and I decided I wanted to get into financial services.

Rory: I was interested in wealth, to be honest -- Jono's job.

Daniel: Did you know people in the industry or you just had your own interests and wanted to pursue it?

Rory: Just my own personal interests. I just felt like financial services would be a good fit for me because it requires some kind of literacy in financials, but more so people skills. It's more of a relationship game, it's not technical, so to speak, like some finance careers can be. It just seemed like a good fit, and wealth was just an interest. Insurance is always something that you fall into, and I fell into it. When I was competing as an athlete, an insurance company wanted to write an article on an athlete who had a story about adversity. So they contacted Paralympics New Zealand, who gave them my number. They were recruiting one day, a year after I'd given this article to them, and basically shoulder-tapped me and I got to meet the CEO of the company.

Daniel: Wow.

Rory: And moved from Christchurch to Auckland to work for Partners Life. Yeah, so I completely fell into it. Obviously, it was in line with how I was thinking -- financial services -- and it was just a really good opportunity. It was something new, and I got to move cities, and the company was willing to put me out as an adviser after a little bit of training, but basically straight to the cold front, and say, "This is the pathway we've got for you," and support you in that. So it was cool, man, and what an awesome way to start out my career in financial services and as an insurance adviser.

Daniel: One of the largest companies in New Zealand. You got exposure to claims, underwriting, servicing, admin, and just got to understand the general lay of the land of what an insurance company does.

Rory: Yeah. So at the back end, there are these products, which are just pieces of paper -- promises to protect people -- and try to sell them. What happens behind the scenes to put that together?

Daniel: That's right. And who are these people and what are they like? Because there's all sorts of stigmas and stereotypical thinking around insurance.

Rory: I think that gave me a pretty good leg up as an adviser, to understand actually who are the people behind these companies, right?

Daniel: Because that's the same thing on the mortgage side and wealth side. A lot of people work at the bank before they become an independent adviser. They get exposure to the actual viewpoint and lifestyles of the people in the industry. They're great people who are passionate about securing people's finances and taking care of them.

Rory: I suppose, when you first start your journey, you don't have to be a client to know that this is a pretty crazy business to work in. You're dependent on how many clients you can help as a business, it can be stressful.

Daniel: Yeah. Some people would say, you gotta be pretty crazy to work in this business. But I would say, it's about having an actual genuine passion and interest in what you do. I think that's what we all share here at Blueprint. All of the providers that we work with and all the products we help people with -- we're genuinely passionate and keen to help people.

Fighting for Claims and Client Wins

Daniel: So, in those early days at Partners, was there a moment where it transitioned from just being a job to being like, "Actually, yeah, I'm frothing this"?

Rory: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, yeah, there -- I don't know if there was a specific moment. I just took to it, you know? You work with people every day and I think what we do is important. That probably comes to fruition once you experience a client that needs to make a claim. It's perhaps not the heartwarming feeling like getting someone into their first home.

Daniel: Yeah, that's right.

Rory: It's still important -- more important when people are under financial stress. It's rewarding, but it's a different kind of rewarding feeling. You know what I mean? It's like you're not high-fiving when the client claims.

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely.

Rory: But you're pleased that they've got that policy and you've helped them put it in place. You say, "Thank goodness we were there to help," right?

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely.

Rory: I think that's what drives me, you know? Making it simple. Life insurance and health insurance can be complicated, and we make it really simple for people and available. So, you know, taking down some of those barriers so people can just get covered.

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. And I think since you've been here working at Blueprint as our in-house adviser, the conversations about how you operate as an adviser and sort of going the extra mile is what makes all the difference. And I think why you get referred so many clients and why so many people want to work with you is because you've got this sort of, "I really know your stuff, I really understand the policy," but also you've got this drive to push back on some insurance providers to A) get claims across the line, but also B) get people protected. I know you've got a couple of stories of when you've helped some people out where it was a bit up in the air, maybe, whether we were going to get the claim paid out or not, and just with a bit of gas behind it from an adviser, that actually helps come claim time, right?

Rory: 100%. And I think that's advisers and financial services, right? There are nuances to our job, that's why we are beneficial for a client, you know? Because we represent them, and there's humans involved everywhere. The example that I've got, it's a pretty sad case, it's a child's trauma claim and it's pretty serious. It's an unwell child, which is something that people don't necessarily think about when they cover -- like, what if something happened to my kid? The situation is, you know, someone's got to become a carer. A parent is going to become a carer. There are these bucket list things now that this family wants to do because of limited time. Navigating that's pretty tricky. The company was brilliant to work with, and a lot of trauma products in the market have built-in benefits for children. That was paid straight away. The company was fantastic to work with. They also had an income product and within that there's a feature called Dependent Caregiver Benefit.

Daniel: Yeah.

Rory: And basically what that does is what it sounds like -- if you're required to leave work to care full-time for a dependent, then there's a monthly benefit that's payable. The nuance here was that the client didn't have that option ticked, so it's not a built-in benefit, it's an optional benefit.

Daniel: Oh, wow.

Rory: It wasn't selected, so the claim was declined. The insurer was Partners Life. I had a lot of experience with their product. The benefit is actually free for certain occupation classes, so whether it was ticked or unticked, it wouldn't have affected their premium. We presented a case and the company took it to their Customer Outcomes Review Committee.

Daniel: That's another thing clients probably don't know about -- there is this channel where we can challenge a decision, put a case forward.

Rory: They will, with an open mind, review it. They actually look for reasons to pay a claim.

Daniel: Yeah, exactly, because that's what they're in the business of doing -- paying claims. So they're not sitting around the boardroom going, "How can we get out of this one? Should we be paying this claim?"

Rory: 100%. And the outcome was that they should be paying the claim, and their claim went from $50,000 to $74,000, which is incredible, which made a big difference.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure. That's a massive outcome. And I'm sure the client was very grateful for your efforts in such a time like that, you know what I mean? Because it makes all the difference. A lot of people think that the adviser or the insurance company might just do the deal and then bugger off. But you were there to take care of them during the claim. What an outcome.

Rory: A great outcome. You don't always get those results. Part of that is understanding what the client's entitled to. There's a little bit of human error there -- someone's got to make the case, know what you're talking about. So now it's good. It's one of those ones, again, you know, a sad situation, but you're proud when you get a result like that. You move on.

Insurance Products and Young People

Daniel: Now, I've always had a keen interest in your part of the industry because it's super important. But also, there's a lot of cool things going on in insurance. People don't realise how insurance can be fun. It can be incredibly exciting.

Rory: I think you might be overselling it. I'll be a terrible insurance adviser. Insurance is super fun, guys.

Daniel: No, but seriously, there are so many different unique products because people are going through different journeys, right? So, for example, you've got multiple insurance providers, right? You don't have insurance with just one provider. You've chopped and changed it a bit, haven't you?

Rory: Yeah, I've mixed it up. The reason I've done that -- I'm insured with Partners Life predominantly, and that's like your bread and butter. Most of it's there. That's my big safety net. I got that as a staff member and continued it when I left. One of the benefits of that policy is that it wasn't underwritten. So I'm a person who has a whole lot of health history -- surgeries and all sorts of stuff. I'd be riddled with exclusions if I was to be underwritten for health benefits and income. So Partners Life, great product. And then I've got insurance with AIA because they've got a really cool programme, AIA Vitality, which is a hit around the office. Everyone's loving it. Everyone wants a little piece of it. I think for young people, it's good -- people that are interested in their health and regularly exercise or play sports. There are a lot of benefits where you can earn rewards, get various discounts on things like massages, gym memberships, or clothing. It also discounts your insurance premiums, and through activity you can increase the discount on your insurance. It's pretty unique, and obviously insurance companies want to insure healthy people.

Daniel: Yeah. That's a great business model for them.

Rory: Yeah, for sure. It brings their risk profile down massively and the chance of claiming comes down.

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely.

Rory: And so they're recognising that actually people that are actively engaging in exercise or, you know, it's also like screenings -- fitness assessments, blood pressure, cholesterol, weight -- and understanding their health, being proactive, and they're less likely to claim and get rewarded through the programme.

Daniel: That's incredible. That's very cool. Because if you're already going to the gym four times a week, you might as well get some sort of benefit.

Rory: A little kickback. Where's my kickback? Absolutely. That's awesome.

Daniel: I think on the topic of young people and insurance, you have some great conversations because all our clients who purchase their properties have their review with you at the end of the process, right? First home buyers. So you're talking to a lot of people as young as 21, 22, 23, who are probably leaving that mindset of being invincible, before you're really properly into the workforce and established as an adult. They're probably not even thinking about insurance.

Rory: A lot of them aren't. And they always leave with something after they've spoken with you, a bit of a safety net that's going to build up over time. How are you finding that conversation? I know a lot of people, when they bring up the idea of insurance and they're under the age of 25, they think, "Oh, how could this ever affect me?" I think it's very important to begin your insurance journey at that stage, having some basic medical, some basic trauma, that sort of stuff.

Daniel: What do you reckon?

Rory: Yeah, like, the average 24-year-old's not necessarily concerned about life cover.

Daniel: No way.

Rory: Particularly when life cover doesn't benefit you. But the first home buyer journey is a little bit different and often the first time people are getting exposed to personal health insurance.

Daniel: Yeah, that's right.

Rory: So it's all brand new, and the process is about understanding risk. All insurance is a transfer of risk, and people are really accustomed to insuring their motor vehicles and their houses.

Daniel: Well said.

Rory: Assets, plant, and people. I understand that if I drive on the road, someone might hit my car or I might hit an expensive car and I'll be out of pocket. Health insurance is really much the same. Often we might have an individual or a couple that have bought a home, and so we just discuss risks and it's all health-related. Often it ties around medical expenses, loss of income, or loss of life. So really kind of three buckets, and then just talk about the products that we've got to fill those buckets.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure.

Rory: And often, you know, we're just insuring people that are in good health and understanding that that's beneficial. Long may we continue to have good health, but inevitably, things happen in life. Things will deteriorate, and they're often unexpected, you know, like having a crash of your motor vehicle. You don't leave the house going, "Today could be the day where I have a prang." And so, with being healthy, they've got all the options available to them and they're fully insured for the entirety of their policy.

Daniel: Nah, it's so good. And I think also just getting into the rhythm of, okay, when I'm looking at my monthly budget, a lot of them are always talking about sort of 3% of your income is going towards insuring yourself against these sorts of things. And once you get used to that, whether you like it or not, you're going to go down the road. Most likely you're going to have a family and other people are going to be depending on your income. You already just get into those habits of saying, "Okay, this is the amount of money that's put away to transfer that risk," like you're saying, and then you're going to just live a much smoother life. Best case scenario, you have it and you never use it.

Rory: That's the best case scenario, right?

Daniel: Yeah, absolutely. And you raised a good point around those small allocations. KiwiSaver is 3%. ACC is about 1.6%. You might be investing a little bit more into your future wealth, you know, another 7%, if you're following like The Richest Man in Babylon, you know, like 10% away. This is an ideal world, obviously in a tight economy, it's hard. But having a percent or two of your income going towards insuring your future health or wealth is really important. Especially if you're a young person, that's your biggest asset -- your ability to earn income. If you think about how much you're going to be earning over the next 60 years, that's your biggest asset, isn't it? Yourself and your ability to earn. So that has to be protected, number one. In that first home buyer, they go into the house and everything's gone into the house. The savings is gone. The key was gone. And a short-term loss of income could be a loss of the house.

Rory: And long-term loss of income, yeah, this can be millions of dollars lost.

Daniel: Especially now we've had a market correction, right? So a lot of first home buyers now are sitting close to a 100% loan-to-value ratio, LVR, you know, that deposit's kind of been squeezed because property prices have dropped.

Rory: No doubt. It's going to correct, and in five, ten years, they will be sweet. But right now they're feeling that pinch.

Busting Insurance Myths

Daniel: We were talking earlier today about insurance myths. There's a lot of BS that gets floated around insurance because, obviously, the people that have negative experiences -- just like the banks, just like KiwiSaver providers -- people have negative experiences with insurance providers, they're very loud about it. And some of the cases, I'm sure, if you looked under a microscope with certain providers internationally, you'd be able to find a case and say, "Hey, this was unjust." But there's a bunch of insurance myths. So the biggest one that you always hear is "insurance is a scam" and "insurers are looking for ways to avoid paying claims."

Rory: Yeah, that's just BS, isn't it? It's common, right? Because there's always a story of someone got declined and that seems to be the headline.

Daniel: The loud news.

Rory: Yeah, the headline. Exactly. But the opposite's true, Dan. Insurance companies are in the business of paying claims. That's literally what they're there to do.

Daniel: That's how they have such big businesses.

Rory: Absolutely. And they're for profit. Like, yes, they are businesses and companies that try to have an after-tax income, but they're scrutinised and regulated by the Financial Markets Authority. They pay claims, and I've got some numbers here actually from a couple of our insurers, and these are pretty consistent, right? So we've got company A, 92% of claims paid in the last financial year.

Daniel: That's quite standard.

Rory: That's a lot. And 94% for one of our smaller companies. So 0.8 out of 10 will get reviewed and declined.

Daniel: Yeah.

Rory: And I think it's important to understand that the bulk of declined claims are when people claim on benefits that they're not covered for. So, like, you've got a health policy, you didn't select the specialist option, you've been referred to a specialist, you claim, and you get declined because you don't have the specialist option.

Daniel: That goes into that 8% of claims that were declined.

Rory: Oh, right. Yeah. Or you claim for a broken arm because you have a specific injury benefit, but then they get the medical records and you hadn't had a fracture. Claims that get declined are typically for people claiming for benefits that aren't covered in their policy. So, that can be a whole bunch of things. Perhaps they haven't met the medical definition of benefits, or they've got a medical policy and they're claiming for a specialist appointment but they haven't selected a specialist option. They didn't tick that box. And so that goes into the statistics as a declined claim.

Daniel: Yeah. I think the ones that people worry about are non-disclosure claims. That's when you've withheld, either deliberately or in most cases accidentally, material information that would have influenced the insurer's decision at the time.

Rory: Yeah. So those are bad scenarios that we don't want to see in the industry.

Daniel: Yeah. And there are processes that we follow to really mitigate those.

Rory: Yeah. Sorry, are we back on? Okay.

Daniel: You were saying that they're in the business to pay claims.

Rory: They're in the business to pay claims. Insurance companies are doing everything that they can to pay claims and they go through that process. Insurance companies have no issue paying claims -- that's literally priced into their premium. The reason they go through that vigorous assessment process, that application process, is their products are all rated for standard risks. So just a general member of the population. Certain people that apply for insurance have risk factors that they're either going to exclude -- like, you dinged your car before you got car insurance and then you wanted to claim after getting the insurance. Like, it doesn't work like that. Or they might cover you, but charge a premium. The long story short is that they have the money to pay claims. But claims have a direct impact on the premium.

Daniel: That's right. The insurance company can't lose, but they don't want to be paying claims that they shouldn't be paying because then that affects everyone else's premiums. If we move to general insurance as an example, when we have those massive natural weather events, those directly affected everyone's premiums the following year, right? Premiums shot up because it's passed on to everyone. Everyone else shares the burden of that. And then, red zones in Christchurch and now perhaps there are exclusions for earthquake cover or hiked up premiums if you want that protected because the insurance company doesn't fit the model anymore.

Rory: It's too risky. The business model doesn't work, so they've got to jack it up to even cover the costs because they're reinsured by bigger providers who see those areas as extreme risk -- coastal areas or flood-prone areas. They're factoring all these things in. Just going back to the non-disclosure side of things, that's where you come in, right? As an adviser or someone helping a client issue a policy, it's your job to do the fact-finding, ask the right questions and triple-check to make sure that what's being put in place is going to get paid out if necessary, right?

Daniel: That's such a valuable part of it because a lot of people -- you know, there are some providers who provide insurance online directly where you can sign up, but I just can't understand why you'd go through that process if you can just use an adviser.

Rory: Yeah, 100%. There are a couple of checks that we do. Because we work with multiple insurers, they operate differently. They've got different products, different reinsurers, and different underwriting standards. A pre-existing condition with one provider could be uninsurable. With the next provider, they could give you full cover, standard rates, no amendments. There are literally examples that are that extreme. And, you know, I'm not a medical professional. There's no rhyme or reason to that, why they do it so differently, but they do. And so when we're dealing with a new client, it's always one of the questions we ask about their health history because we've got five providers that we work with. We can do a pre-assessment and find out who's going to give the best terms. Often it will be similar or the same, and that's great -- that means that client's got access to the market. And then there are other factors that we consider, like who would be a good provider, whether it's professional or not, price, additional benefits, they're interested in AIA Vitality perhaps, medical is important to them, so they want a provider where they can have life and income and medical all together.

Daniel: For sure.

Rory: So there are all those factors that come into it. And then there's the application, making sure the client's aware of their duty of disclosure, and if they've got a complex medical history, the insurance company is going to request what they call a PMAR -- a full medical record -- or, you know, if it's just making sure that they haven't forgotten things and if they are unsure, they can request their own medical records and we can still complete an application, but submit medical records alongside.

Daniel: For sure.

Rory: And that's, you know, 100% peace of mind when we do that process. There are ways to safeguard clients. It's not just new clients, it could be an insurance review. We could be looking at replacing a client's policy with a different insurer because the benefits look better, but you've got to do that thorough underwriting health assessment before you can make those final calls.

Daniel: Another big myth or an assumption: "I can't get covered because of my pre-existing health conditions." This one may be true, but have you looked at all the providers? I just touched on it before, where it's like provider A said you're uninsurable, provider B said we'll give you everything you need.

Rory: Yeah, exactly. So, and if a client's gone direct and they've, you know, perhaps they've done their own research or they know someone and they've gone direct to a single company or a single company adviser, and they've had a bad outcome, they walk away thinking, "I'm uninsurable." But they haven't actually approached every company in the market, and they may well be insurable.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure.

Rory: Certainly some people may not be able to get covered, but you want that peace of mind. And you can only really do that through an adviser because they've got access to all the eligible providers for you.

Daniel: Absolutely. Hypothetically, you could just go door to door. There'd be no benefit to you because as an adviser, we don't charge our clients, we get paid in commission. The commissions aren't hiked because they're working with an adviser.

Rory: It's actually cheaper for the insurance companies to use advisers, to distribute through advisers, and it's better for the client. I think even insurance companies would say that because of the fact that there are different offerings in the market, whether it's health or a product, we want competition and options. So there's really no downside to using an adviser.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure. I was also just wondering, because we talk a lot about advice and being advisers and what that process looks like. It's unique for every single person. So people have insurance. Sometimes they're underinsured, but sometimes we meet people that are maybe a bit overinsured, in terms of what the actual financial goals are or the obligations would be if something were to happen. So have you ever recommended anyone to cancel their policy or significantly wind down their insurance?

Rory: Yeah, 100%. We certainly have conversations whenever taking benefits away, so long as the client's happy. Usually we're just saying, "Hey, do you really need this?" It could be life insurance and the client might be retired or nearing retirement where they've built their wealth. If they pass away, they pass away, that's a given, right? They might be better off putting that $500 premium in their pocket. Basically, there's a cycle, right? The younger we are, the bigger the potential financial impact, the lower the probability we are of claiming, which is good, but if we are one of those unlucky people that ends up in a claim situation, your loss early on is potentially huge. When we're younger and we talk about first home buyers, debt's high, eventually people start a family, that brings a new element of risk where it's not just you and your partner. There's a dependent now, and what does that look like for the household if something happens to mum or dad? Kids get older and eventually go to university, leave home and become less dependent. Debts come down, so our need for insurance reduces over time, and in an ideal world, that's how we want to do it -- insure ourselves large when we're younger and then taper it down as we get older, with the exception of a medical policy or a terminal illness policy. There are some things that we might hang onto for a bit longer.

Daniel: Oh, brilliant. Well, it's a good day when you get to cancel your life insurance.

Rory: 100%. That's pretty much like your retirement -- financially independent.

Daniel: Absolutely. And actually, on that cancelling of policies though, there's another side where people cancel their policies when they still need the cover, but they are struggling financially to afford the cover.

Rory: Yeah. People need to make changes to their expenses when times are tough, and that's just a given. Any change that has a financial impact should always go hand in hand with a discussion and some advice, I think.

Daniel: Yeah, 100%.

Rory: There are ways of saving money, keeping some cover, and sometimes a little is better than nothing. Just highlighting the area of risk, right? Because it might be something left over that needs to be looked after, but everything else can be taken. So it's reduction, and then maybe having some left over.

Daniel: Absolutely. Rory, this has been bloody awesome, man. I hope the viewers, the folks at home, are as thrilled as I am about insurance, man. It just gets me so G'd -- all these benefits and what your journey's been. Because like you mentioned, you've had a hell of a ride up to where you are right now, working with us here at Blueprint, and it's just something you should be very proud of. So, we're stoked to be doing this with you.

Rory: Oh, thanks mate. Yeah, I'm stoked to be part of the team. Absolutely, man.

Daniel: So we've got the Fast Five. We ask all of our guests. We do it together. So I'm flipping this one. This is a solo for you, but everyone's dying to know the answer to these questions. So just to know a bit more about who we're dealing with here. Rory, who's your most influential musical artist, if you had to name one?

Rory: For me, U2.

Daniel: Oh wow. Was it because you got that free album on the iPhone on Apple Music?

Rory: No, actually, so I said earlier that I lost my leg when I was three years old. When I was two years old, I got third-degree burns from a jug.

Daniel: Oh my gosh.

Rory: I was trying to wrest my bottle from a jug because that's how they heated it in the olden days. And so I tried to wrest my bottle and had third-degree burns. Anyway, an uncle gave me a Walkman with the Joshua Tree album on a tape.

Daniel: Oh, no way.

Rory: And I think just constant -- it's ingrained, mate. And you've got a Walkman with one tape, and you're two years old. It's all you can listen to and, yeah.

Daniel: Well, I suppose that's early days U2 as well. It's like you are, you know, you've grown up with them a bit, haven't you, as they've developed as an artist.

Rory: Oh, that's right. It's U2 in the eighties as well. So, it's the OG.

Daniel: Yeah. So, oh, that's so interesting. U2. I just love it. Absolutely love it. Bono. So it's a choice between rugby and cricket for yourself. Obviously there's athletics, but I know you're a big cricket guy. So who's your cricket greatest of all time?

Rory: Look, man, if they're Australian, we've got a problem. Look, great at the GOAT. I'm going over the test, man.

Daniel: No way.

Rory: I'm going, mate, Shane Warne.

Daniel: Yeah, Warne.

Rory: I'm going Warne because he's...

Daniel: But you bowled quick ones, didn't you?

Rory: Oh yeah. I was pretty slow. So pretty slow.

Daniel: What's with the leg spin?

Rory: I just think he's such a great lad, you know, and such a great ambassador of the game as well.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure.

Rory: Into his retirement, he really was. Such a shame that he passed away. I hope he was insured, because that's an early one.

Daniel: Obviously we're crazy about real estate here at Blueprint. What do you fancy in terms of your investment property -- into your long-term property holding or do you like your short-term property trading?

Rory: Good. Oh, you mean, flip it and flip it. Flipping, yeah. Flip it. Yeah, that's right. No, I think probably long-term hold, eh, yeah.

Daniel: So you see just the other assets, you see value in holding over time, letting inflation do its thing.

Rory: Yeah. I'm not a real estate mogul at this stage, but one of the first investment books I read was Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and his sort of formula.

Daniel: That's a great book.

Rory: Yeah. And it might actually -- I might be confusing his book with a property seminar -- but there's a formula of, you know, you get three cash cows, cashflow positive housing, and your one grower -- capital growth.

Daniel: Yeah. So where's that area that you like to buy in?

Rory: Tokoroa. Three in Tokoroa. And one in Papamoa. Or Auckland. It's definitely a growing market. Tauranga -- massively pumping off. Really good property there as well.

Daniel: When we're doing a takeaway, Indian or Chinese?

Rory: Indian.

Daniel: Mara butter chicken? Not even a conversation.

Rory: Not a mara butter chicken. I'll take that butter chicken and I'll give it some Indian hot.

Daniel: Okay, you'd actually go hot?

Rory: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Daniel: Oh, wow. Yeah. Ring burner. Okay, because this is actually a really interesting one. It's something that you love to ask our guests. What advice would you give yourself 10 years ago -- talking to Rory 10 years ago?

Rory: Yeah. God, I thought about this a little bit. Get your shit together.

Daniel: You'd give yourself a hard word.

Rory: Get your act together. You would have been a full-time athlete or training most of the time, right, 10 years ago. I would have loved to have been a little bit more disciplined. Don't drink. Eat right, go to bed, go to sleep, get up early, invest in yourself, read books, listen to people that have done it before. I think I could have thrown further as an athlete if I'd done that, although I did okay. But I just think you're always going to look back and say you could have done more, right? I think there was some juice to squeeze left there.

Daniel: I think so, but so long as we are better than we were yesterday.

Rory: But that's the whole thing of getting your shit together, you know? Keep working on yourself. You said a great quote the other day, "The harder you work, the luckier you get." So true. You do work really hard and it's a great quote. You get out what you put in.

Daniel: For sure. The tough thing is, especially being younger, you have to go through many cycles to realise that you don't see the gains until two or three years down the track.

Rory: That's right. The one with the delayed discipline.

Daniel: Yeah. Delayed gratification. It's a bit like the hold and wait on property. Investing into a mutual fund -- there's a compounding effect that goes with small actions repeated regularly.

Rory: Yeah, for sure.

Daniel: Well, cheers, Rory. This has been such a treat, man. And I can't wait for our next guest.

Rory: Yeah. Right now, we're not going to leak who that is, but...

Daniel: Lips are sealed. Stay tuned. Cheers, mate.

Rory: Cheers, Danos.

Daniel: This is catching on.

Rory: Heh heh heh. Bucket list. It just feels so smooth, man.

Daniel: Man, that was good. You interviewed me real well.