Blueprinted

Jono's Journey Into Finance

Daniel: All right, guys. Welcome to this episode of the Blueprint Podcast. This episode is called "Blueprinted" and I'm very happy to be here with my co-host Rory. First ever episode as a co-host.

Rory: Yeah, this is the maiden voyage, eh?

Daniel: Absolutely, man. Could be the Titanic like you said this morning, but we'll see how we go.

Rory: Nah, super excited.

Daniel: We're lucky enough to have Jono here, our resident KiwiSaver adviser. The reason why this episode is so exciting is because we offer a variety of services here at Blueprint: mortgages, insurance, and KiwiSaver investment solutions for our customers. Jono has got such an interesting story as to how he became our KiwiSaver adviser. Rory and I are just here to learn and listen and let our listeners know what great work you're doing for our clients. Thanks so much for coming on. They're going to learn very soon all your achievements, but obviously you've been an investment adviser for many years, managed some pretty big portfolios with some big banks. But we're going to crack into that very shortly. So mate, thanks so much for coming on.

Jono: Excited. Ready to get into it.

Rory: Awesome. Yeah, no, it's brilliant. Guest number one. And it's awesome to have somebody in the house. So I suppose, just to get to know you a bit, Jono, and for the listeners, give us a bit of an insight into your beginning and your lead into finance and how that all came about for you.

Jono: Yeah, sure. So for me, I actually just fell into finance to be honest. It's nothing I really went for growing up. I was actually really into sports. I really enjoyed my basketball and that led me to do sports science as a degree at uni. Back at school I wasn't really an academic type person. I was good with numbers, maths and physics, but outside of that, it was sports science. So that's what I studied. I went away, did some travels, came back and then I realised, what am I going to do next? So I didn't really have a plan.

If I go back to uni there was one paper I did in particular, it was Accounting 101, and it was actually about KiwiSaver, funnily enough. And that paper was the one I got the best grade in. And it was all about KiwiSaver—foreshadowing, yeah.

So in a way it chose me and I think I'm meant to be in this space. I'm good with people. I like chatting with people. I like really helping people. And I think in finance, it's a really powerful way to do that. In order to achieve my goals, I get to help clients achieve theirs. And I think that's quite empowering.

Rory: 100%. Yeah.

Jono: So that's how it came about. Applied for a job at ANZ. That was the first job that I took up. It was a call centre job. At the time I was working at Pak'nSave. I was trolley boy. Didn't really know what I wanted to do, but going back to my Accounting 101, finance, numbers, people, I was like, ah, I'll just apply.

Yeah. So yeah, I applied. I went to the interview. There were three of us there on the day and they went through a bit of a role play. I had to pretend I was a banker for the first time, which was quite scary and intimidating. They gave me the scenario and I had to come up with solutions.

I had to pretend that I was picking up a call. So I pick up this call and I actually took my hand to my face. I bring it to my face and I was like, "Welcome to ANZ, you're speaking to Jono now." The interview people just started cracking up.

Daniel: And offered you the job.

Jono: I was going to say, that probably got you the job. But I actually left and I was like, man, I'm never coming back here again. They're laughing at me. I clearly blew it. And no, I got the call back. I came back and apparently they hired one out of the three and it was me. The other ones were definitely more qualified and had more skills and experience. But I think maybe I connected with them quite well. Then jumped into the banking side.

Daniel: It's a good place to start a career in finance, at the bank.

Rory: A lot of people get a leg up in the banks.

Jono: Yes. And the call centre is one of the perfect starting points. How did you launch from there and evolve in the bank?

From Banking to Private Wealth

Jono: Absolutely. The banking side accelerated my learning curve. When I was at uni, I racked up all this debt. I was spending money to learn—student loan and other stuff. But yeah, that's probably why it took me four years to do a three-year degree, but I managed to get there in the end. I viewed it as a learning centre. Now I was getting paid to learn. Being in the context, that's super powerful.

Yeah. Real powerful. Like I was able to take hundreds and hundreds of calls all across the country. The initial role was just general banking, understanding general products, and then it moved into lending—so outbound, inbound calling home lending. I started to help Kiwis get into their first home through property.

That's when I started to learn more about equity and leveraging property to build your wealth. I was able to help Kiwis do that. At the time, to be honest, I didn't believe that I could buy a home. Yeah. And a lot of Kiwis out there are probably feeling the same way.

But by actually being in the industry and learning these things, I was able to create a plan for me and my partner to buy a home. And I think just that knowledge from the banking end and helping clients was real empowering.

Daniel: Change of perspective, eh?

Jono: Yeah, dead right. Yeah, absolutely. And then from there, I moved into business banking, did business lending, so helping small to medium-sized businesses as well, which was super challenging. I did that during COVID and there were lots of clients going through difficult times. Basically, everything I learned was scrapped because now it was all judgement.

Judgement lending. It was like trying to help people in need who were struggling and going through a tough time. That was a difficult time. But yeah, I did about five years lending-wise. Wow. Learned heaps, really passionate about it, and then I decided to take another challenge and pivoted into private wealth.

That's where I started to learn more about markets, how monetary and fiscal policy works, and how the different asset classes work. And then, yeah, I was just getting real fascinated about all of it. It was like a multiverse.

Daniel: Yeah. That's incredible. In terms of getting into wealth, I imagine in the bank you would have been young for that area, which is a bit of an old boys club. How did you go slotting into that environment and was your age a barrier or not?

Jono: Yeah, great question. It did become a barrier. But there was still a period where I was able to learn underneath advisers because there was just so much to learn. I was learning this while there was a COVID crash. Portfolios were going backwards, share and bond markets were going backwards. And like, I wasn't even ready to be a front-facing adviser. I was lucky to work under experienced advisers that were much older than me.

Daniel: Yeah. With a wealth of knowledge. And they basically coached me. And that was really cool. I managed to do my studies. I got a whole lot of experience working with high net worth individuals trying to grow their wealth through active management. It did get to a point where age was a factor.

Jono: And so just the nature of the clients we were dealing with being more towards the established wealth, high net worth, money with senior, old money. Yeah, they've sold their businesses, they've cashed up, they've sold their properties, they've got all this money. And I guess it's really hard to talk to a really young person about finance when they've lived much longer than me and probably seen a lot more than myself.

Rory: So do you think your age was something from your colleagues that they were saying is a barrier or did you get that feeling from the clients as well?

Jono: I don't think it was from the clients. I think it was just more the look—ANZ Private Wealth. It makes sense to make sure that you've got someone there that has all the certificates, has all the knowledge, all the experience, and that is handling that pot of money. I ended up deciding to pivot away from banking, and the bank really helped me with that.

They supported me. They said this is a really good move just to get that experience. So I worked with a specialist investment firm called NZ Funds. They took me on and I was eager to learn. I learned so much from being there. I was overseeing a portfolio of $400 million of Kiwis' funds.

Daniel: That's a lot. So it was just having those conversations but being that main adviser that the clients could lean on.

Rory: Absolutely. I think going back to what you said initially about your first call centre job—that's really profound and I think it ties into a lot of what makes a successful financial adviser. You said "getting paid to learn." I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that about a job.

Daniel: Yeah, that's right. And I really think the successful financial advisers have such a genuine, keen interest to learn about people and learn about how they manage their money so they can give better advice. You talk to people all across the country. You're talking to people in Auckland, regional New Zealand, farmers, industry workers, and you're learning how much they earn and what their financial future looks like.

You can give them really informed advice about where they're going financially. You know what their career range looks like in terms of max income earning, and you can give them some really sound advice. Your ambition to keep learning throughout all those years you spent at the bank and NZ Funds—it sort of turned you into the adviser you are today, where you really know your stuff.

Jono: Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Honestly, one of the main reasons why I went into private wealth is I wanted to learn how these people acquired all this wealth. Yeah. How did you get there? There's something that I don't know.

If I was to go back to my own sort of family, they weren't financially well off. They had good incomes, but they didn't know what to do with it. Yeah. And they didn't know how to invest, save, grow wealth, things like that. You don't have to know how. Yeah. So it's like a medium financial literacy.

Yeah. So I just wanted to learn: how are these people doing it? And then how can I apply that to my own world and also how can I use this information to help others? That's why I think KiwiSaver is so special. For me, I have a real opportunity to help people get into their first home.

I believe everyone should be able to purchase their first home here in New Zealand. But also when it comes to retirement as well, like having the retirement you deserve. A lot of people aren't thinking about it. I'm having so many conversations and it's the last thing on their mind. KiwiSaver is actually at the bottom of your list. Yeah, and for a lot of people it could be a million-dollar decision.

Daniel: Absolutely. And getting into those conversations, it's life-changing. That's magic. So you went to ANZ and got paid to do your masters in financial services—from the call centres to lending to private wealth. Then you transitioned to a specialist wealth firm in NZ Funds, managing $400 million.

Jono: Overseeing, yeah. So fund managers managing.

Daniel: And in that time you've accumulated a lot of knowledge, you've got a passion for the industry, and now you're with these Blueprint Finance guys, a boutique. How did you end up from the big commercial to an advisory business like Blueprint Finance?

Jono: I think for me, I'm always trying to put myself outside my comfort zone. It got to the point at the bank where I started to get a little bit too comfortable. That's why I pushed the investment specialist role and then coming here I'm noticing now the conversations are even deeper because I'm not limited to any one provider.

I'm no longer handcuffed. I can literally give advice that's tailored to each client. I can make sure that the advice that I give does meet their KiwiSaver preferences, their goals, that matches their risk tolerance, and what they're trying to achieve and how they're trying to get there.

Because although every KiwiSaver provider has their own conservative fund, growth fund, aggressive fund, they are all slightly different and tied to different goals. A great privilege for us in New Zealand is that you've got so many options, but that's why you have to go even deeper because you can really pinpoint what a client's objective is and then what that right fund is, right?

Daniel: Yeah, that's crazy. There's 38 providers, which is massive—like 10 entered in the last sort of 10 years into the market. Some have gone, there's a few acquisitions, things like that, but KiwiSaver is one of the fastest growing bits of finance, like it's really growing really fast.

Jono: It's got to be the fastest, surely.

Daniel: Absolutely. And I would say in the next sort of 12 to 13 years, once KiwiSaver has been around for 17 years, the average KiwiSaver balance will be $100,000. And I think at that point, that's when people are going to start to wake up and go, "Hold up, this is actually quite a lot of money here."

"This has now become one of my biggest assets. What am I doing? I might need even more specialist advice." So those that are getting the advice now, and getting it set up now, will have much higher balances come 10, 20 years' time. There's so many options out there, eh?

The Half-a-Million-Dollar KiwiSaver Decision

Rory: With KiwiSaver, it can be viewed as almost like a set-and-forget, because it is building wealth and investing—and particularly KiwiSaver where it's locked funds. It's a long-term game. With so many options, the value of advice is critical. We were talking about the wealth gap and the 30-minute, half-a-million-dollar conversation. You've got an example of a client where your advice makes a huge long-term difference to their wealth.

Jono: Studies have shown that working with a financial adviser does lead to better outcomes. And this is a pure example. So this client during COVID switched from a growth fund—they were at one of the banks—and moved to a conservative fund.

Daniel: Why did they switch?

Jono: Main reason: the markets were falling. We had a decline of 30%. Obviously COVID happened, borders closed, businesses had to close their doors. Lots of uncertainty, and markets don't react very well to that.

Share markets dived. That was probably the first time for a lot of Kiwis where they started to realise that this KiwiSaver is not a savings account. It's actually an investment. KiwiSaver is probably not the right real name for it because it's not a savings account.

It's the value of the assets you own. So this client switched to a conservative fund because they thought that's the right thing to do: "I want to protect my money." Fair enough. This client's really busy as well. So really busy, working really hard, has a very high-end role.

Daniel: Yes. And so KiwiSaver is, again, one of the last things you want to think about. But big balance, six-figure income, so quite meaningful investment. It's been four to five years since that COVID dip, and what we've seen is that markets have fully recovered.

Jono: And that's what generally happens. Markets do go up more than they go down over time. Share markets have been around for over a hundred years and that's been a reliable way to build long-term wealth. I was having a chat with this client and one of the first things is just making sure you're in the right fund.

Conservative is definitely not the right fund for this person.

Daniel: Yeah.

Jono: And so I got into that conversation, but one of the providers actually has this chart that shows the differences between: if you switched at COVID, if you stayed invested and stayed the course, versus if you stayed invested and contributed more.

Daniel: The person that stayed invested and contributed more grew a lot faster.

Jono: That's right. The ones that switched were worse off financially. There are reasons for that—obviously you're switching away from growth assets, like your shares, listed properties. These assets go up and down quickly.

If you're selling those investments, you're crystallising that loss. You're making it permanent. You're moving away from growth assets, which are considered more risky, to more stable conservative investments like cash and bonds.

These investments provide income through interest coupons from bonds.

Daniel: Yeah, so when the market fully recovered, these sort of assets don't reflect that. So that's why the client missed out. One is, when I have this conversation, it's really educating the client around the investment.

Jono: But the powerful part was because KiwiSaver has been around for a long time, this client was in the conservative fund—over the last 10 years it's done a 4% return. This client had around $250,000 in their KiwiSaver.

I talked to the client about the Rule of 72. I use it as a bit of a guide, but basically there's two inputs: timeframe and interest rate. I said, okay: 72 divided by 4—4% return in a conservative fund—that takes 18 years for your funds to double in value.

The crazy thing is this client had 18 years to run to 65. So it's almost the perfect scenario. It was crazy.

Daniel: Yeah. And then that's her investment horizon.

Jono: That's her investment horizon. And that's still 65. And you've got to remember, 65 isn't the finish line. You still have 20 to 30 years in retirement for the money to last.

So that's a whole other conversation. But by making sure you switch to the most appropriate fund—which in this case, once I'd done the risk profiling and had a chat around how the client feels about risk and risk capacity, the growth fund has typically done around 8% after fees, after tax, if I was to round it down.

So 72 divided by 8—your funds double now in 9 years. So you go from $250k to $500k and then from nine years, doubling again, takes you to 18 years. Now you're at age 65, but your fund balance goes from $500k to $1 million. When I said KiwiSaver is a million-dollar decision for a lot of Kiwis—it is.

Daniel: Yeah. And I'm not even factoring employee contributions, employer contributions, government contributions, that's purely investment returns. This client may have missed out on $500,000. Which is crazy, right? And it's easy to change funds, but the impact is bigger than the ease with which it is to make a decision like that.

And markets react to news, to good news and bad news. It's an emotional thing for people when they see their retirement dipping, to then go and make a decision on their own without getting advice. The moral of the story is, don't make those decisions without someone in your corner.

Jono: Absolutely. That's the value of Jono in your corner. He's a mobile phone call away, and you stay the course. You need someone to say, "Hey, stay the course and actually hold the line. Actually put more in." It was the best outcome. You were right. We are driven by emotions. We're human beings. If you look at behavioural economics, we don't view gains and losses equally. What I mean by that—flip a coin, heads or tails: you earn a hundred dollars or lose a hundred dollars. Most people wouldn't take that bet.

Daniel: Yeah, for sure. Risk/return, it doesn't make sense. It's only when you get to about 200 to 250: you win 200–250, tails you lose a hundred—that's when people start to take the bet. So when people see their funds drop, it actually hurts. It's twice as painful as the equivalent gain. And that's the crazy thing.

Jono: Just purely on emotions, people can make knee-jerk reactions based on long-term objectives. That's why, always make sure you touch base with your adviser so that we can make sure that this is a long-term objective. You've got easily 10 to 15 years plus to run.

You can ride out short-term volatility. Markets take on average three to five years to fully recover. Sometimes it takes longer, sometimes less, but you've got the time and can benefit from purchasing these investments at cheaper valuations. Stay the course. This is the financial education piece that, working with an adviser, you'll be able to learn while you earn.

Daniel: It's very hands-off, KiwiSaver, for a lot of people. As a guy who's made countless poor financial decisions, going back to that client with that COVID switch—I know so many people who did that. I'm not a KiwiSaver adviser, but I was in touch with my mortgage clients at the time and they saw the balance dropping and switched it.

But then for their fund to not even reach out and have that conversation, because they didn't have an adviser—that's really tough, right? Because that's a painful learning now for the client. They'll never make that mistake again, especially if they're still in that growth stage of their KiwiSaver journey, under the age of 55 or 60, depending on their goals. When you look at an aggressive growth or active growth chart, it says 10% return, right?

Jono: It's trying to get a 10% return minimum. That's factoring in massive drops from things like natural disasters, pandemics, global conflicts. That's priced in, so it's designed for you to remove the emotion out of it. And for that specific client, she's super stoked to be signing up now.

Daniel: And thank God that she did, because how many more years would she have just gone on the conservative?

Jono: Oh, I don't know. That's the thing. Missing out. The information we give today is general to certain situations—obviously seek advice for your personal situation.

Daniel: This is not financial advice. For example, Dan, when you were talking about COVID, there were a lot of clients that were looking to purchase property during that time. Markets fell 30% and they lost 10–15 grand off their KiwiSaver, which was their deposit.

Jono: That's right. And because they didn't have an adviser or someone to lean on, an adviser would have made sure that we protect your deposit. We're in a defensive or a cash fund. Yeah, there's five different funds. And so we want to switch and make sure you're in the right fund. The right move was to try and protect the capital there.

But those that have a long timeframe—it's about growing the capital as much as possible. You can't achieve a fully funded retirement without investing in growth assets and taking some risk.

Daniel: Absolutely. Yeah. But yeah, it's all personalised to your goals. It depends on what type of return you're trying to achieve. It's not all about trying to get the highest return and taking the highest level of risk. If you only need a risk/return profile that might achieve 4 or 5%, let's go with that. There's no need to take any more risk. Why take the additional risk when 4% achieves your goal?

So it's all tailored. There's a time and a place to be conservative, aggressive, or balanced depending on your stage of life. We've been talking about market factors and how they play on emotions, decision-making and advice.

The Three Pillars and Getting Blueprinted

Jono: So I sit across from you, or behind you, on a day-to-day basis and you talk about LVRs and OCRs and buzzwords.

Daniel: DTI, interest rates.

Jono: Yeah. That's a landscape that's changing and how does that influence you and your advice and how does it influence your clients and what you do on the mortgage side of things?

Daniel: Thanks so much for asking.

Rory: You were saying there's a time and place for every KiwiSaver model—the conservative or the active—but knowing you, you're always aggressive.

Daniel: It's called Bitcoin. It's called fully encrypted.

Rory: Yeah. We had a poker night the other week and this guy took all the chips home. He probably went all in most of the time.

Daniel: Yeah, exactly. So he's doing the same thing with his KiwiSaver. Every underdog has his day.

Jono: No, I was just making a joke. Obviously, Rory's got a balanced approach. He's in active growth at the moment. Then will peter off to conservative. That makes me question, mate—

Rory: It's such a good thing to bring up, because having lunch with you guys is such a treat, because I love learning about your industries. I'm not an expert. I know a lot about insurance and I know a lot about KiwiSaver—I like to think—but I don't know a third of what you guys know, and that's why I love sitting down, picking your brain, exchanging battle stories of how we're helping clients. I suppose how the mortgage is different, exactly like you guys are saying—we're in an ever-changing landscape.

Daniel: Yours is changing a lot in terms of the markets and yours is really pretty consistent, but there are some big industry changes every now and then.

Rory: Totally. Our biggest change is on premiums. Price is changing.

Daniel: Yeah. And that actually correlates to what you guys do when interest rates go up and there's a cost of living crisis and inflation. At the same time, insurance premiums go up with age. People are looking to pinch pennies somewhere. So there's always actually ongoing conversations: "Can we take this cover down? How do we rework your insurance cover as well?" But I suppose on the mortgage side, keeping up to date with all of the product changes from different banks, the OCRs, the interest rate changes, and keeping your clients informed—

Rory: —so Dan, we've talked about our different disciplines. I actually like to refer to them here as the three pillars of financial success: your wealth, which we've touched on; your house, which is incredibly important; and your—

Daniel: Health as well. Or risk protection, as we call it in the industry. How have you found having KiwiSaver and insurance alongside you and how's that synergy between what you do in terms of financing and risk protection?

Jono: Honestly, it's an absolute blessing to be able to be in a position, especially with you two fellas, to provide those services as well. Because I've been quite a while in the game, you guys know my whole career. I've been an adviser—nine years ago when I started. It was a very long time before I established any sort of genuine relationships where I could be able to fully cover off a client on the insurance and the investments as well.

And it's crucial. It's absolutely crucial because although they might seem unimportant, especially on the KiwiSaver, people can't see the vision yet. Now that we can see, for people in their thirties, how big some of these balances are actually going to get and how important they're going to be to supplement your super—when you get to retirement age. And also on the insurance. It's just the most important thing because not only is it a conversation that we really want our clients to have, it's an obligation. If we're sorting out a client's mortgage, we're getting them the best possible interest rates—we're giving them really good advice on the loan structure. That's a third of the job, isn't it? They've got the mortgage sorted. Now the mortgage is pristine. I've put a bow on it. It's done. But you're taking on a lot of risk now. You're in a position where your financial obligations have changed.

You're committed to paying rates. You're committed to paying this mortgage. It's a privilege to have a mortgage. You're going to pay that off and you're going to pay the house off. Then you're going to have a house for your family.

That's an asset that's going to appreciate over time. But if that doesn't go right, we need a backup. We need the KiwiSaver and the insurance. It's a natural bridging of the conversation to have you guys come in with that check-in. Obviously it's an obligation on the insurance side.

Rory: And then it's an obligation, right? You need to have a discussion with your clients about risk protection. "We're taking on an $800k mortgage. What's your plan if you can't pay it?" "My parents have got a million bucks in the bank, sweet as." For me, that's not the case. And I'd say for most Kiwis, it's not the case.

Daniel: So let's make a plan. We had a recent client. It's very common. All our first-home buyers have a chat to you guys, even if they're clearing out their KiwiSaver, especially if they're getting their first home. Most of them don't have any personal insurance, especially ones without kids.

Just them being able to have that conversation openly and candidly with someone like yourself, no obligation, just understanding what role insurance is going to play in their life—because even if they don't take a policy with you right now, I guarantee you, once they have their first child or once they get three or four years down the track, they're going to know, "Hey, I actually need that medical insurance."

Because if something happens to me and I need some serious help, there's no real plan. So it's super, super rewarding. But for me, it's more so like a relief to have some really competent guys there helping with those products.

Rory: And when I speak to your clients, there genuinely is no obligation. It's a discussion and an education. You need to say, "Hey, it's time to have a conversation about life or health insurance."

But when they have that conversation, it's not compulsory. So that's a misconception actually. Often it gets put upon people that they need to have life insurance to take a loan. They think that they do, but they don't. The bank will require you to insure your home.

Daniel: That's right. They want to protect their asset.

Rory: But in many countries, it's an obligation to have personal insurance if you're getting a mortgage. And in some states in Canada, you actually need mortgage protection insurance.

It's a very soft and educational approach to the advice that we give. It's really important that the personal risk protection is for the client, so that if they have a hiccup along the way and are off work for a period of time, they can maintain their mortgage obligations and keep the roof over their head.

Daniel: Yeah, dead right. So it's not for the bank. It's for your partner. It's for yourself. It's for your kids. That's why you take personal risk protection. Obviously medical is always pretty good. But I suppose that just segues into talking a bit about the value you've added here in the office.

It's been great having you in, servicing these clients. How have you found going from being an independent adviser to being the Blueprint cornerstone of the risk protection side of things?

Rory: Oh man, I've loved it, to be honest. It's been fantastic. In my brokering career, I've always tried to align with like-minded mortgage brokers because buying a home or refinance is one of the big triggers for having insurance.

That goes hand in hand, those relationships. But there's a big difference to being under the same roof and colleagues—one team, one dream. There's a certain amount of efficiency that comes with it. We share similar information and know each other's clients. Whether I'm referring you a client, or Jono is referring me, or you're referring Jono—whatever way the information is flowing, we've all got the same data.

And that makes for a really good client experience. You've also got more touchpoints. So you have your 6-month, your 12-month, your 18-month refix review. You've got your annual insurance review, your annual KiwiSaver review. There's a lot of touchpoints and there's a lot of opportunity for clients to put their hand up and say, "Hey, I need to do something."

"I need to change something around my finances."

Daniel: Yeah. And lots of times people don't get that and they drag the chain a little bit. "It's too hard, I've got to go into the bank or call the insurance company." Whereas with us, we're a text message away or an email away. They might ring you up on a Sunday night because they have to, about their refix—talking to you and then they mention to you, "I need to sort out my insurance because of this," and then you go, "Hang on."

Rory: Exactly. It's awesome. Everybody in this office is like-minded and it's a client-first approach. Similar values and life stages as well.

Daniel: That's the most important thing for me, I think, is that everyone's got the same values in terms of how to deal with the client. I can guarantee you if you put any of these guys in the same situation, they'd all play it the same way. And the client's getting a similar experience and a similar level of service across the board. Which I think is really cool.

And we do have a bit of a success story from today.

Rory: Oh my God. Mr G. Yeah. He's a client. It actually all happened today. This is going to be one of many case studies.

Daniel: And here at Blueprint, look, we're not breaking the mould. We're not doing anything new. We're just giving really good financial advice. But we have invented a new word. And it's called—it's actually, I suppose it's a past tense word, isn't it, about someone or something that's happened to you?

And Mr G is a client of ours and he's been "blueprinted." If you're wondering what that means, it's super important to us. It means it's a client that we've met through the mortgage. We've refinanced him. We set his mortgage up really well. Happy with that. He is. And he's actually said, "Look, I've gotten an off-the-shelf policy, insurance policy online."

Thank God you mentioned something because things might not be set up properly. Referring to a chat with Rory—tell us a bit about your relationship.

Rory: It was a smooth process. One of the great things about working as a team under this roof is the trust that the client builds up, which this particular client had built up from the lending team.

They came to me already having had a good experience. It was a really smooth process. The guys collected the existing insurance policies set up online. And they came off the back of this particular client actually leaving his role where he had insurance.

Daniel: Yeah. And then I think he copied it—

Rory: Through work, yeah. And then I think he went online and copied and pasted his benefits.

Daniel: —and got himself covered, which some of it was good for purposes, but there were some gaps and there was a bit of a quality issue in some of the products. So we reviewed it and took him through an advice process and showed him the difference and set him up with his new policy.

It was super streamlined because we're sharing information with his consent, of course. He's with us.

Rory: Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so, no, really good experience for him and off the back of that I said that we had a fantastic KiwiSaver adviser at hand.

Daniel: Oh my gosh. This guy. I knew about his investment side of things—not just in New Zealand, but some international stuff. So I was able to myself have a bit of a conversation with him and with the little bit of knowledge that I have from Jono, because I sit side-by-side with him.

Rory: And you're like a sponge on him, eh?

Daniel: Absolutely. I'm learning lots from you too. He was very keen to talk to Jono who put the final Blueprint stamp on him, basically.

Rory: Oh my gosh. So the finale—tell us, you must've felt a bit of pressure on yourself.

Jono: Because when something like this in the office happens, everyone's talking about it at the coffee machine. Everyone's saying, "Are we going to get the Blueprint? We're going to get the trifecta." Even Mr—

Daniel: Mr G was equally as excited because he just thought the idea of a one-stop shop—he was loving it, because we were thinking about your insurance policy. It was like he was having like... but we were like, "Let's get it sorted. Let's make this the number one thing for two weeks and you never have to think about it again."

Jono: Yeah. No—we protected his wealth and now we're looking to grow it.

Daniel: 100%. That's the goal. Having a conversation with Mr G—fascinating person, super onto it. We didn't actually change the provider or the strategy, but just having that conversation around, "Are you in the right strategy for your goals?"

Jono: Making sure we did the risk profiling and KiwiSaver preference questions and found out that this provider works really well. I did come up with some other options, but it's something that we can have a discussion with. So moving forward, I think what's really intrigued him is we're going to get in touch every year.

I'm going to do quarterly updates because he's quite busy. He doesn't keep up with markets, but he wants to know what's going on. So quarterly updates, video newsletters, making sure you're not missing the government contributions, making sure that you're on the right PIR rate—all of these hygiene things to make sure that everything is working smoothly. Over time your risk tolerance can change. Your goals can change. KiwiSaver is becoming actually a lot more—there's a lot more things you can do now. You can customise, you can go multi-manager approach.

So you never know—your goals could change and there might be something out there that's a better fit. But we'll keep in touch.

Daniel: Yeah. And we're helping with the Aussie super transfer.

Jono: Yeah, that's brilliant. And he was an intelligent client, like he was pretty switched on. And like you said, busy, got a family, he's got a busy role, but made the time to have the discussions with each respective team member and soaked up the information and appreciated the advice and trusted the process. It was really smooth and efficient for him and for us.

Daniel: It was good. It was real good. I'm looking forward to helping more clients.

Rory: Yeah, absolutely. Even with Mr G, I actually didn't write the loan. I didn't help him with his mortgage, but our teammates David and Jack got him sorted. This whole process is so interesting because they almost missed out, and he was previously helped by an adviser who was in a circle of friends. We obviously would never talk down an adviser, but from Mr G's words himself, he wasn't getting the service that he needed. Right, and with any service business, if you don't get the right service, you should leave. We almost missed out on helping him because of loyalty, but the way those boys worked to provide him such a good offering and take care of him and say, "Look, this is going to be us for the years to come."

He obviously worked with us because the savings was there. To think it went from that, to almost not working with him, to him being a fully Blueprinted—first Blueprinted client.

Jono: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was nearly the one that got away.

Daniel: Jack was walking around the office in tears, playing Michael Buble, thinking he'd lost his deal, but thank God he didn't. And I'm sure next client event, Mr G will be there and we'll get a picture with him and it's just going to be a very happy time. Hopefully everyone—

Rory: Hopefully we could bring him in for an interview. That'd be great.

Daniel: Yeah, 100%. Get him on the pod here.

Rory: Yeah, absolutely. Jono, cool. This has been such a cool chat. And this is definitely not the last time that Rory and I are going to have you on, because your insight into KiwiSaver—next question, Rory.

Daniel: Mate, I'm not the basketball guy in the office, but if I were to join LeBron James—who's the GOAT?

Jono: I might lose some clients or friends, but honestly, hands down, LeBron James.

Daniel: Controversial, man.

Jono: If you've been following the Olympics, the guy's—turning 40 and he's still the best player.

Daniel: Do you think he was the best player on that team?

Jono: Best player? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. He was close to a triple-double, getting everyone involved, facilitating everyone, rebounds, blocks, taking the charges.

Daniel: So it's not even a debate?

Jono: No, not even a debate. I've been following LeBron since he's been in high school. I just think he's a massive talent. I think a lot of us will miss him when he's gone. So I'm hoping I can go over and see him. For me, it's LeBron.

Daniel: Bigger, faster, stronger. Better.

Jono: I think there's always someone else who's going to come along. This is a big misconception that people get—this idea of being irreplaceable. I don't think anybody is. You could have said that about MJ. And then look at Jordan. Like, "There will never be another Michael Jordan."

Moving on to real estate investment mindset. Our clients love talking about this: long-term holds or short-term property trading. What interests you the most?

Jono: For me, it would be long-term holds. That's where you're going to grow the wealth. We're thinking about doubling your money every sort of seven or ten years—that's what property has done. The growth rate might slow down, that makes sense, but yeah, short flipping is short money. But there are some benefits to doing that, and if you want to get some quick money, raise some deposit to buy your holds—yeah, it's a good strategy as well. So I'm looking forward to doing both.

Daniel: Slow and steady wins the race.

Jono: 100%.

Daniel: Onto the most contentious subject. Favourite takeaway: Indian or Chinese cuisine?

Jono: Far out, I don't discriminate, eh? A bit of both.

Daniel: Nah, come on.

Jono: I'm a seafood diet man. I just eat anything. I see food, I eat it. You guys had some cookies here today. I was munching away.

Rory: I'm also on a seafood diet. If I see food and it's a fish, I eat it.

Daniel: Yeah, funniest podcast on the market. Dude, I am incredibly doubtful any of our clients or listeners have made it this far. That was just for us.

Jono: Honestly, if I was to answer that question—nothing beats a butter chicken. So Indian.

Daniel: Yeah. 100%. I'm a huge BC fan as well. I've had the real thing in India but they don't make food like they do in New Zealand.

Jono: Quality of food here is just incredible. I want to do a podcast on your travels in India.

Daniel: Yeah. Definitely. That'll be the hundredth podcast.

Rory: Last question. This is Rory's favourite question and I really like it too. What advice would you give yourself 10 years ago—knowing what you know now?

Jono: I'd be 21. I'd be in uni, left school. I think for me, knowing what I know now, it's: don't believe everything you read. Think for yourself. And one of the big things I'm starting to realise more and more now is having the right people around you, the network. Even talking to my family, they had good jobs and things like that.

But if they had the right people around them, and provided that advice like we're doing today—yeah, how many people we're helping, how many people will be better off? Give it 10, 15, 20 years in the future, they're going to be super stoked, super happy, because we're setting them up.

100%. So for me, having the right team and having a plan and working the plan.

And this is what I learned—I quickly jump and have new ideas all the time. I just need to stick to something and just go at it. See it to the end. And that's what I'm looking to do here. Find your niche and then just go all in.

Rory: I just wanted to comment on that because I think a lot of younger people, young men or women, we don't actually have a plan. We don't have a mentor. We don't have someone necessarily telling us how to walk those steps. But having a plan and sticking to it and thinking for yourself—I think it's massively powerful and that's you mentoring your 21-year-old self there.

Daniel: You don't need to know everything. You've got to leverage your networks. There's going to be things I know that you don't. Get on the phone and start talking to your friends, see what they're doing, what they're thinking.

I constantly send stuff to people and go, "Give me your thoughts," especially people that think way different to me.

Jono: Yeah, for sure. Because every time I look at something, I think I'm right—until I get another opinion.

Daniel: It opens up another can of worms. The reality is the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Jono: Yeah. If we can get as many people in a room and talk to as many people, the answer will be somewhere in the middle.

Daniel: Jono, thank you so much for joining Rory and I this evening. Seriously, it's been such a treat and yeah, look, this isn't going to be the last time you'll be on. So thank you so much. We're going to end off with a 2011 Rugby World Cup John Key awkward three-hand man handshake. One of these. Holy. That's the Blueprinted fist.

Rory: All right, cheers Jono.

Jono: Cheers guys.

Daniel: Awesome, mate.