Uber Eats to 2 Properties: How Jack Turned $17k Into a Portfolio

Watering our own garden

Daniel: Guys, welcome to Blueprint Finance, a place where everyday Kiwis come to learn more about their personal finances. We're fizzing, because we've got a very special guest — and we've hit a big milestone, one of the rare podcasts that keeps going. Every now and then we like to water our own garden, and today we've got one of our own: Jack "under offer" Hammond, one of our top advisers and producers. His story is awesome, we can all relate to it, and there are a lot of real-world numbers and inspiring lessons to take from it on the property side. Jack, welcome, mate.

Jack: Appreciate it, fellas. Happy to be here.

Rory: A bit of backstory — he comes from my neck of the woods. A Hutt Valley fella, Silverstream boy. The same way I'm losing all my friends to Australia, Wellington's losing everyone to Auckland, so I'm grateful to get one back.

Daniel: Tell us a bit about your story. You graduated high school as one of New Zealand's top middle-distance runners. Tell us about that journey into college.

Jack: In high school in Wellington, pretty much all my attention went towards being the best middle-distance runner I could be. The goal was a scholarship to America. I eventually got that — went to Illinois State University. I was there about a semester and a half, and it just wasn't what I thought it would be. It didn't satisfy me, and I thought, I'm going to have to do something else.

Daniel: What missed the mark?

Jack: A variety of things. I think people who leave New Zealand assume there are bigger opportunities and cooler things to be doing. Then you're over there a few weeks, a few months, and it drags on, and you think — hang on, New Zealand's actually pretty good. The culture I was used to, having family and friends — things you take for granted when you're overseas. So I'm very happy to be back.

Uber Eats and content creation

Rory: Another interesting part of your background is the content creation and Uber Eats. You entered that market when it was hot.

Jack: When I came back from America at 20 or 21, I was thinking about the next thing. I didn't like the idea of a nine-to-five doing labour-intensive work, or retail or hospitality. So I thought, why can't I work in an environment where my income might not be capped? I'd seen videos of people in America doing Uber Eats — why not try it over here? And on top of that, maybe I could make videos about it, like other people were doing on YouTube and Instagram, and get a bit of money where my income isn't capped. So I fell into that world — the gig economy.

Daniel: Quick story — the first I heard of Jack creating content about Uber was through my barber, Brian. He was watching Jack's content when he was starting out as a barber. So Jack was supplementing income through Uber and sharing it, and Brian followed along while cutting hair. Funny link. People find it so interesting — likewise with financial content, people are always thinking about ways to make more money and want to understand how lucrative something would actually be, and the running costs. It's extremely valuable content.

Jack: I hadn't really seen anyone else make videos about it. So if I had that curiosity, maybe I could fill that place in the market for other people — and get a little coin for doing it.

Getting into property

Daniel: You were an influencer, but you were also influenced online — by financial content creators. That's actually what got you into property investing. We always talk about people like Graham Stephan, a big property investor in the States. From a young age I was lucky enough to be surrounded by property investors — my older brother, family and friends. For you it was more about getting the information yourself and learning from scratch online. Were there big aha moments?

Jack: It's a funny story. In the content space you're always looking at what other people are doing. One day in 2023, I came across a guy getting attention in the property space that I hadn't been exposed to before — because a few years ago there wasn't really anyone making videos showing how they were operating with property in New Zealand. It was actually Tama, who's a very good friend of the show now. What he was saying resonated with me, and it sounded like he was making good money. So I dived deeper to see how he was operating. And I eventually found out that Tama's mortgage broker was you, Dan — that's a big reason I'm here today. I wanted to learn from people who'd achieved what I wanted to achieve. People like Tama and yourself. That's pretty much the storyline of how I got here.

Daniel: I introduced you as Jack "under offer" Hammond, and that leans into deal sourcing. Tell us about that — because if you think about property, it's kind of step one.

Jack: This is a key component a lot of people don't think about enough. The money is really made in property on the deal itself — you can do a really good renovation, but the money is ultimately made on the purchase. So being very selective is super crucial. That's what I learned from people like Tama. I was doing hours and hours of research across the regions, trying to identify the best markets, and testing the market.

Daniel: How many offers do you think you've made in your career?

Jack: Probably in the vicinity of 200 to 500. When I first thought this was the best use of my time, I'd make 10 or 20 offers a week, really testing the waters. The whole objective was that I might not necessarily want to buy them myself — but I could do all the due diligence, identify a really good deal, and refer it to someone connected with a line of buyers, then get compensated for that initial work. That's deal sourcing. I figured if I could get myself into a position to buy these properties personally, I'd know the fundamentals of finding a good deal.

Daniel: At the same time, you're becoming a financial adviser. In the early days we'd all be in the office until 8, 9pm, and this guy would be writing up conditional offers like it was going out of fashion. What was the steeper learning curve — how bank products work, or the real estate market?

Jack: They both have a lot of challenges. With one deal there's so much variety — different regions, property types, floor sizes, yields. But the finance side has so many banks, interest rates, cashbacks, how much you can borrow. It's a bit of a coin flip — both are challenging. In my first year I took a while; I remember asking you so many questions week on week. Now I understand the bank products and how to find a deal, so it's a coin flip — both somewhat challenging.

How Jack found Blueprint

Daniel: It was very early days of Blueprint, so we were both taking a chance on each other. We're super passionate about property and financial freedom here, so anyone who shares that thinking and is happy to take a risk on themselves is welcome. The actual story of how you came to us is serendipitous.

Jack: Chuck runs a very successful business, and he'd watched one of my videos saying I was looking at doing my studies to become a financial adviser, and he recommended Blueprint. Within the same week, Tama told me his broker was you and that I should reach out. So that was the knife in the coffin — I'll do whatever it takes to come work with this guy. And we needed a team on the media side, so it was a perfect blend. He taught us everything on the media, we taught him everything on the mortgage. It was an exchange.

The first deal: $17k and a 5% deposit

Daniel: Now the fun part — the numbers. If you're looking at buying your first property, this is the part to tune in for. You're thinking about your first home, you've spent 12 to 24 months becoming a top adviser and constantly watching the market. You've got the knowledge but you're limited on capital. Talk us through it.

Jack: With my first purchase I had limitations. I had about 17 grand to my name — coming from a background of America, Uber Eats and content. I could have got friends or family on board, but I didn't really want to take that route if I could avoid it. And my income side wasn't the strongest — I'm an up-and-coming adviser, and it takes time to build a client base. But I still wanted to buy, because it's good for building wealth personally, and it's reassuring for future clients if I've actually got a mortgage myself. With the parameters I had, I was looking at a 5% deposit — that 17 grand — so for an owner-occupied home I had to buy in Auckland, max around $350k to $400k. So I'm on Trade Me, filtering by lowest price, and there are slim pickings. We're looking at units or apartments, and it needs to be owner-occupied. I needed something that didn't need a lot of work — the roof can't be bad, it needs to be structurally sound — for a bank to be keen. Just over 12 months ago, I found the one.

Daniel: Because of those limitations, you were ruthless. You'd only get one bullet — if you bought incorrectly, you couldn't reload. You always used the term "I want to buy 60 or 70 cents on the dollar," which I'd never heard for property. It fired me up. He's getting everything out of that 17 grand. We find the deal — tell us about it.

Jack: It's a two-bedroom unit, 60 square metres, central Auckland — not the most glamorous area, some colourful neighbours. But I'm not getting emotional with this purchase. I'm looking at how the bank is valuing it, how the online tools value it, and the comparable sales. I secured it at $327,000. The comparable sales were ranging from $400,000 to $450,000.

Daniel: Had there been a comparable sale in the block?

Jack: Yes — and that's a good point. In my complex there are 12 units, basically all identical. Unfortunately a few people bought at the peak of the market in 2021, 2022, and I think two or three with very similar specs to mine sold for more than $500,000. That gave me a lot of comfort that what I was buying was good value. Another important component is the long-term effect — if I rent it in the future, how does the cashflow work? What's the weekly rent, and how do my expenses — insurance, rates, property manager — affect my position. It only needed a basic cosmetic reno. Despite the cons of the area, I thought it was the best play available, and there weren't really any alternatives that made sense compared to it.

Jack: Another reason for the purchase was thinking about probability: what's the chance someone could buy a cross-lease two-bedroom unit for less than me? And if they could, I'd probably try to buy it myself. So I justified going ahead.

Daniel: Was there any negotiation?

Jack: Heaps. If you're going to negotiate anything, it's a property transaction — likely the biggest you'll do. It's not worth negotiating something small like a coffee, but you want to get every dollar you can out of that transaction. Ideally both parties are happy, but you've got to think about yourself — that's something I preach for clients. We got it at $327k, both parties were happy, and we had a deal.

Daniel: Then we took advantage of the 5% deposit loan — one of the major banks was doing it. It's actually quite new that it's so prolific. It was a straightforward approval. Because you had less than 20% deposit, you bought with a low-equity premium — a 1.25% loading on your rate — but you still got the first-home-buyer cashback of $5,000.

Rory: Which is about a third of your deposit, which is awesome.

The insurance scare

Rory: Jack, due diligence is something you take pride in — but insurance nearly became a hurdle at the last hour.

Jack: It's a good one for people listening. In theory it's a basic deal — central, flat section, doesn't need much work, in a complex you can't do much to. I'd never personally experienced an insurance scare. But there actually isn't a body corporate in place for this unit — it's every man for himself with insurance. Insurers were having a tough time giving me cover, because in the event a neighbouring unit is responsible for something and I get taken out in the crossfire, how do I get my insurance paid out? That never crossed my mind, or my lawyer's. I'd gone unconditional at that point, before having insurance arranged, assuming it would be fine — and it's an obligation: to get finance, you have to have insurance in place. There's a very large legal commitment when you go unconditional, so it was stressful. Thankfully I got a solution in the end, but it was down to the wire. I was fortunate to be in the industry — for someone who wasn't, it would've been really stressful.

Daniel: John the insurance broker — give him a quick plug.

Jack: It wasn't actually John who got the solution on the unit, but he was one of maybe 10 insurance brokers I called, and he was great. So anytime I have a client wanting property insurance — which Rory, in personal insurance, doesn't do — I refer them to John.

Daniel: A good reminder: because of your experience, you assumed insurance would be fine. A regular first-home buyer would've gotten the quote beforehand. It takes a day to get an unconditional insurance quote when buying — so just do that before you go unconditional, to remove that stress.

Recycling the deposit

Daniel: Settlement day comes, champagne's popping, our boy's a homeowner. But unlike most first-home buyers, instead of working on the perfect couch and the smeg fridge, he's thinking about his next purchase. You've got spread — you paid 60-something cents on the dollar, the online valuation still says it's worth much more. What's next?

Jack: Something I'd come to realise being in the industry is how banks value properties. They commonly use two resources — Velocity, and CoreLogic, which recently rebranded to Totality. My thinking was, when the time comes, I can present to a bank and say, I bought for X, but look at the comparable sales and your own bank valuation. At the time, the bank valuation on one of the tools was around $440,000. So I could present that to a lender: my property's worth $440,000, I've got a $310,000 loan, I now have this equity available — can I move over to you on the basis of that value, and you pay out everything I owe, so I'm no longer on the low-equity margin? I did that about six months in, and found a lender happy with it — a major bank.

Jack: On top of that, for an owner-occupied property a lender will lend up to 80% of the value. So if it's valued at $440,000, 80% is a maximum of $352,000. I could ask to also borrow an additional $42,000 — I needed the $310k to pay out the previous lender and get off the low-equity margin, but I also wanted that flexibility to look at buying another property or doing renovations. So that was the whole reason for buying this property the way I did. The valuation was likely to stay there, because how is there going to be another sale less than that, in Auckland, with all those comparables? That enabled me to go again.

Daniel: It's fascinating, the valuation piece. Compare it to other assets — stocks, Bitcoin, gold — the market sets the price. But here, the most recent market transaction is $327,000, and six months later the bank says that's wrong, it's $400k-plus. It's so different to other asset classes.

Jack: The best way to measure it is the rental income it achieves. My unit is now rented at $520 per week. Other units in the area getting $520 probably go for $450k to $500k. The online valuations are challenging to understand — they change week to week, sometimes down $20,000 for no clear reason. It's a bit of a loophole. How has it gone up $115,000 when I've done no renovations? It's because of the discount I bought at, and because people weren't interested in buying it — I took the opportunity when someone really needed to sell.

Daniel: A big thing on the valuation system: if it's a low-confidence value — so far from the mean of comparable sales, or not enough comparable sales — the banks take that into account. In Auckland you're very unlikely to get low confidence, because there are more properties and transactions. In the regions there often aren't enough transactions for a strong valuation. So a benefit of this buy was that the purchase price was unlikely to affect the value much, because there were so many comparable sales.

Daniel: So if we take stock — you've refinanced your home, $310k initial borrowing, topped up about $42,000 as available credit. For the folks at home — you started with a 5% deposit, why can't you re-borrow all the way back to 95%?

Jack: If you think of the lender's position, even buying with a 5% deposit, a lot of lenders don't offer it because they're very exposed. If I'm not cooperative with repaying that $310k and they have to do a mortgage sale, having recently bought at $327k, they might not get $300k — and they've got to pay an agent and a lawyer. So there have to be strong reasons. The property needs to be in good stead — maybe undervalued, like mine. Buying it at that price gave the bank confidence. So it's an exemption to buy with 5%, and you can't then re-borrow to only 5% — you can only re-borrow up to 80%.

Rent-vesting

Daniel: If you wanted to rent this place out after six months, you could, and it rents for $520 a week — covering the mortgage, rates and insurance. So you can go rent somewhere else to get the next one.

Jack: A few things happened after I purchased. I met my girlfriend, and we decided to move out and live together. On a $310,000 loan, interest rates at the time, I went to about 4.89% on a one-year fix. On principal and interest I was looking at about $350 per week on a 30-year term, and $520 a week in rental income. So with rates, insurance and a property manager, it roughly covers it, with a bit left for incidentals. On interest-only — which I have now — maybe I'm getting $50, $60 on top, if there are no big repairs. So that makes sense, and I can live closer to work, in a property worth around $800k where my partner and I live now.

Daniel: This isn't the usual New Zealand pathway. Most couples come together, put a deposit together, buy the owner-occupied home, pay it down, then buy the rental. You've done it in reverse, and it doesn't seem like it's stopping — you keep creating these deposits out of equity. Talk us through rent-vesting, and why you value it over buying a family home right now.

Jack: The best way to explain it is my current situation. The property I live in is probably worth $800,000. I might be in a position where my partner and I could buy it — the loan might be $750,000, weekly repayments maybe $850 to $900, and with rates and body corporate, probably $1,100 a week just to hold it and pay a little principal. We currently pay $720 a week to rent it. If we committed all our borrowing power to buying it, and even if we rented it out in the future, we'd have to top up $300 to $350 a week to maintain it — and there's no certainty of a gain in value. We've seen values tank over the last few years. So why would I cap out my borrowing on an owner-occupied home, when I could keep buying undervalue like my first one, which is taking care of itself? As I pay down the principal I get more cashflow, and I can repeat the process. That can be the enabler to buy three, four, five — and I still get to live in a nice property. But depending on your scenario it might not be the best thing for everyone — it's just something to consider. Down the line, if I find a place at 60, 70 cents on the dollar and my partner wants to live there, we might do that.

Daniel: I did it the same way — turned my first home into an investment, bought a second investment property, and now I've ended up with the big family home mortgage. But for most people who don't have the resource or the time for this, it's completely understandable to buy your first home, live in it, try to buy under value, and let it become a rental later. Rent-vesting is a great strategy, just not for everyone.

The second deal: a non-bank and a 10% deposit

Daniel: A lot of people don't know this — we don't just have access to main banks, but non-bank lenders too. They don't abide by the RBNZ speed limits, so they can provide investor products — and the ultimate is the low-deposit investment loan: a 15% or 10% deposit on an investment property. That comes with a cost — a slightly higher rate and a lender fee. You've reloaded your clip. Where do you look now? You're not bound to your family home — you can go regional.

Jack: When I reloaded with the $42,000, I was under the impression I'd still need a 20% deposit and would go to a non-bank — at a main bank you'd need a 30% deposit for an investment. With $42,000 plus a bit of savings, on a 30% deposit I'd be looking at a purchase of about $150k, and I couldn't find anything for that. But then this non-bank came out and said they'd consider investment properties with a 10% deposit — it has to work, the deal has to make sense for them. That gave me a lot more opportunity: with $42,000 available, I could buy a property for around $420k if I could prove I'd service the additional debt, which I was capable of. It opens doors, but it comes with risks. It won't make sense for everyone — but if an opportunity comes up and I can really make the numbers work, I'll use it, even with a higher rate or a fee, because otherwise I might miss the boat on growth. That's what a non-bank does — gives you an alternative. It's the solution I've used to buy my second property.

Daniel: It's a good way of framing the non-bank, because they can have a negative connotation — sometimes people have to go non-bank. But this was a unique situation where it was a light-bulb moment.

Daniel: So you've got the all-clear from your first lender, you get the pre-approval from the second, and you're good to go. What are the main focuses now? You don't have to buy in Auckland — you can just buy a really good investment.

Jack: I want both elements. I want to buy undervalue again, so I might be able to recycle my deposit like I did with the first one — because to buy the third, fourth and fifth property, I'll need equity. Serviceability isn't the constraint for me; the equity is. So there has to be a margin between what I'm buying for and how the bank values it. But I also don't want to be topping up every week, so cashflow is very important.

Daniel: Something to note — this 10% loan, because you're exceeding 80% LVR, you can't get interest-only.

Jack: Correct — this non-bank requires principal and interest. That said, I consider it a short-term solution. Even though I'll pay P&I and a higher rate, the objective is to use this product to enable the purchase, because I can't do it without it. Then I look to go to a main bank and say, my property's worth X, can you give me the funds to pay out everything I owe the non-bank so I have a better rate? Because we bought undervalue, we can do that.

Daniel: Can you share the details of the next deal?

Jack: It's in a small town in the central North Island. I secured it for $225,000 — a three-bedroom, 90 square metres, doesn't need a whole lot of work. It's a cross-lease — three homes developed in the 1970s, all identical spec. During due diligence I got a registered valuation, which is also a requirement for the non-bank, because they want to make sure the value matches what I'm purchasing — they don't want me buying for $225k when it's worth $200k. But I also wanted it to confirm I was getting a discount. The registered valuation came back at $300,000. One bank valuation site had it at $270,000, another at $345,000 — a bit of confidence there. And if I put $10,000 or $15,000 of work in, I can call the same valuer, show the invoices, and a bank will very much consider that, because an actual registered valuer has assessed it. So it sounds like a good option: incorporate leverage, buy undervalue, go again, have flexibility, and my debt is covered by the weekly rent.

Daniel: No-brainer. Rory, we've created a monster.

Rory: It's the absolute fundamentals of property investing — solid investment, understands the property and what it's built of, understands the markets and rentability. This guy does his due diligence as far as looking at how many active rental listings there are in an area to understand the rental demand, because a lot of these towns have fewer than 10,000 people, so there's a genuine risk of rentability. He also chats to property managers to figure that out.

Jack: People hear the numbers and they sound sexy — but it's a lot of work behind the scenes, deal sourcing and due diligence.

Tenants and social housing

Rory: Your first home is being rented out by Work and Income, correct?

Jack: Yes. I wanted to understand how to go about getting a tenant, so in my complex I found out who was renting and who lived in the property they owned — I actually know all the owners in my complex. I found pretty much all of them have a property manager. So I spoke with a tenant in one of the other units, who said her property manager was really great, and I asked for their number. They took me through how it all works, and found someone who was exactly the profile I'd want as a long-term tenant. It happens to be a Work and Income setup — essentially the government is paying for this person to live in the unit. I don't have any connection with Work and Income, but my property manager does, and they said this is a solution you could have. I thought, why not — for the longevity of everything, it makes sense.

Daniel: It's a gold-standard tenant. Back when Labour had the rules where you couldn't offset your interest expense against your mortgage, social housing leases were actually exempt, to encourage landlords to put houses up for social housing — you could claim back your interest expense. So it's seen as a gold-standard tenant: they commit to pay rent on time, and any neglect or repairs at the end of a tenancy, they handle themselves. It's a very sorted solution, and Jack's providing healthy housing for those in need.

Why Jack cares

Daniel: This is 10 years now for me, and I've worked with a lot of advisers — but you really care. When people send him a sale-and-purchase agreement, he's asking them why they're buying this property. I've heard him talk people out of buying houses because he cares so much, as you should if you're a financial adviser. Talk about where you're at and the clients you enjoy helping.

Jack: There's a variety — people buying for the first time, people looking at investments, and people looking for a better solution for their existing lending. Those are the three key profiles. The majority of mortgage brokers might just assess how much someone can borrow and run the process A to Z. But I'm trying to think, for all these scenarios, is this going to make sense for the client — doing an analysis so they're fully aware of the pros and cons.

Daniel: We had an awesome analogy about property investing — a poker hand, and test cricket. How did it go?

Jack: I like the poker reference. Someone might come to me with the equivalent of a nine and a six in their hand, thinking about going all in. But if it's king-queen suited, or two jacks, that makes more sense. You're being selective about when you put your money on the table. With all the players and all the properties available, is now the time? And the cricket version — you can't cover-drive every ball, or you'll eventually get out. Most of the time you've only got one clip, one shot to make a move into your portfolio. So block, block, block, leave the ball — and when the right one comes, cut it through the covers, recycle your equity, and go again.

Daniel: Because although you might think you've got a hefty deposit, if you buy incorrectly with poor cash coverage as an investor, your servicing becomes a problem. So it's really important to sit down with an adviser, plan a couple of steps ahead, and let them know what you're trying to do.

Daniel: Jack, we're so proud of you. For those looking at starting their investment journey, a first home, any part of the process — come to Blueprint, apply to chat to one of our advisers. This guy cares, knows everything, and openly shares it around the office. Thank you, mate.

Jack: Appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Daniel: Awesome. Thanks, Jackie.