When Do You Become Wealthy Enough to Not Need Insurance?

Interest Rates and OCR Predictions

Daniel: Rory, Daniel, my brother in arms. Welcome back mate. Ah, mate. Likewise. It's been such a crazy couple of months, you know, and I think this podcast, we really want to educate our clients, business partners, referral partners on what's going on. We do, what we're seeing, on the front line. In the trenches and get everyone up to speed because there's some crazy stuff happening with the interest rates.

Daniel: I'm sure you've been hearing the guys in the office or the advisors talking to clients about these recent drops.

Rory: Oh, a lot of rate drop announcements hot off the press as we speak. Yeah. So we're gonna touch on that, aye, OCR, OCR.

Daniel: This episode is gonna be a bit of an educational one, so an update on the mortgage side, and then we're gonna deep dive into some wealth stuff for our clients and some case studies we've done recently, aye?

Rory: Yeah, absolutely. And we're gonna be making some predictions, but by the time this podcast goes to air, the results will be in, so just a date stamp, but it's the 2nd of October. And it's 8:00 AM so we are here bright and early. Yeah.

Daniel: I think it's good to say the date, right? Because we're putting our credibility on the line here by thinking about the OCR when we know our, before, it's the announcement on the October the eighth or ninth. Yeah. Or next week. Correct. We're putting it all in the line here. Our reputation, you know, if we're wrong, our businesses. The FMA will shut us down. Yeah, exactly. No, no. We've got some educated, we're gonna make some educated assumptions, but we do have some hard facts, so we'll start with that.

Rory: Cool. Firstly was that the BNZ dropped their one year fixed dramatically to 4.49% last week. Just dropped it. And, it was a bit of a shock really, to have it quite significantly. But before the OCR review, yeah, and it was a significant drop. So the one year drop from 4.72 to 4.49, there was some murmur in the industry, you know, is BNZ gonna lead for a couple weeks, what the rest of the bank's gonna do.

Rory: And then pretty much two days later, all the banks drop their rates to match.

Daniel: Some will also bring it down the sixth month as well. So it was super, super exciting time. Obviously for us. The phones get really busy whenever that happens, especially for our clients have got pending settlements, but those who've got refixes coming up as well because everyone wants to know, you know, if they want, if it's time to make the right decision, if this is gonna be the end of the drops, if we should float for a bit longer for the actual OCR review.

Rory: Yeah, and so my opinion looking at the OCR now before we jump back into interest rates, is, I'm just gonna say, I think it's gonna be a 0.5% cut.

Daniel: Yeah. Right. So they are pretty hefty.

Rory: I've, I've put my, my line in the sand.

Daniel: When was the last time we had a 0.5?

Rory: Must be three, three or four months ago.

Daniel: It's, could have been consistently 0.25%. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But the reason for my, obviously this significant drop in the one year is a massive clue because that tends to match. The margin that's passed on with the banks, with other 0.5 cuts that have happened the last two years. Yeah, so that's where my big, my biggest clue.

Daniel: You know, if I put my detective hat on, the banks are confident, you know, you don't go dropping in rates if you're not preempting an OCR.

Rory: Okay. Yeah, I think so. And previously we've had a 0.15 or 0.1 drop for the one year fixed for a 0.25% OCR Cut. Yeah. As I've been tracking it coming down so, that's a big clue for us that it's gonna be significant. And the other clue is our GDP data, which came out two weeks ago, they were forecasting a 0.4% negative growth for our quarterly results. And it actually was 0.9%.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was bad. Aye. And, interesting thing about the GDP results is, so they reported that in September last month. Yeah. For the June quarter. So it's lagging. Yeah. Yeah. So. Quarter three's already been gone. Yeah. Which will come out sort of later on in the year December. Exactly. If that's bad as well.

Rory: That's right. And there's nothing that we can, that can be done now. Yeah. Because we're in Q four.

Daniel: Yeah, exactly. I mean, you'd assume the Reserve Bank would have those, those figures coming in live or a bit more advanced than the, that we get.

Rory: Sure. So maybe if those are bad too, they've got even more reason to push for a bigger cut. Internationally, markets are gearing down for cuts as well. Yeah. You know, there was a hold in Australia, but the Fed potentially messaging a cut as well. So taking those things into account, I really think, yeah, we are probably looking at least at, at, you know, obviously 0.25 could potentially be on the cards, but I would mirror say a 0.5.

Daniel: Cut. Yeah. Yeah. Which is super exciting for mortgage holders. Okay. It's also exciting for, well, not so exciting for first home buyers because the biggest correlation with property prices increasing is cost of borrowing, right? It's historically proven over time. If you look at all the rate movements over time, as interest rates drop significantly. Like where are we getting to now? Close to the 4% for one year fix, which is kind of where it's heading. You're gonna be paying more for real estate, you know?

First Home Buyers and Market Timing

Rory: Yep. There's gotta be a window opportunity there, right? Yeah. So if there's people that are like almost ready say to buy.

Daniel: Yeah. Or, or they are ready. Yeah. We're at a time now where interest rates are really appealing. Yeah. And the property prices haven't shifted yet, right?

Rory: Exactly. Yeah. I don't wanna say the window's been and gone. I don't wanna say that, but I do wanna say that it's most likely kind of closing. Because as we've seen these, these obviously good properties, the good thing to note about this whole period of higher interest rates is that good properties are still selling, you know?

Daniel: Mm. They're selling and they've got multiple people. Even at rates of 7% for one year fix. Great properties are still selling. Right. You know, so, what happens when rates get lower is those properties that are more, maybe not, you know, less desirable, maybe, you know, run of the mill. Don't have any, you know, significant features that make them stand out and make them really unique pieces of real estate.

Daniel: Those ones start picking up in popularity too, and you find yourself competing with more buyers for those. So, yeah, I mean, it's important for first home buyers to get a understanding of, you know, if you're waiting your window's closing, right? If you're one of these people that are saying, I really just wanna wait for the market, it's pretty clear that at least, you know, close to that point. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Rory: Yeah. But at the same time, we never recommend anyone to wait based on the market movements, you know?

Daniel: But it's probably, it's a good time right now, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you go back 2021, interest rates were super low. House prices were really high. And then, then we've seen that, you know, prices come down, interest rates rise and yeah. But now we've seen rates steadily coming down. Yeah. It's a great time to buy.

Rory: Yeah, a hundred percent agreed. If we just look at the impact of this recent cut, so you know, looking at the 800K mortgage for that 4.72% rate, that was a one year fixed for about four weeks. Now I've dropped down to 4.49%. It's about 150 bucks a month in savings on interest, which is significant. You know, that's a couple of subscriptions. That's just Sky Sports. That's your life insurance for mom and dad. Yeah. That's your life insurance? Yeah. Nice one. Yeah. You know, so it's 1800 bucks a year in savings.

Rory: If you keep your payments the same and put that onto your mortgage, that's gonna compound, that's gonna save, you know, two to three years on your loan term. You know, that's massive. Which is huge. A lot of activity that we're seeing, we're talking to many our existing clients that are doing their refixes, maybe they got a portion still fixed on the higher rate and some cases clients are choosing to break and refix, obviously there's a break cost, which is dependent based on the wholesale rates at the time of you taking that loan.

Rory: It's not necessarily equal to your interest savings, which is quite interesting. Yeah, it can be higher, it can be lower. So it's unique to every customer. But worth having a chat and just checking the break costs and seeing if it's worth breaking and refixing or breaking and refinancing if your existing bank can't give you a cash back to cover those costs.

Daniel: Yep. So we, that's keeping us pretty busy right now is people just restructuring. Some people are taking the savings and like I always talk about. Keeping their repayments the same and paying more principle. But some people are just using it to improve their cash flow, you know, which in these pretty tough challenging times is understandable.

Rory: Yeah, yeah. And that's ultimately what the reserve bank wants, isn't it? Is improve cash flow and yeah. More get some money into your economy.

Daniel: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. We've gotta get some dollars running. Competitions between banks were fond of. They're pretty, pretty, you know, tight on interest rates. You're not really finding discrepancies between banks, you know? Yeah. They're all pretty much doing similar sharp rates and cashback incentives as well. So it's good for us because we can just place clients at the most suitable banks that have the most suitable products, rather than having to fight for interest rates. Yeah. Clients get better customer outcomes, which is really good. Now the price parity is pretty, pretty solid. Which has been great.

Daniel: And I think just another one that I've always thought just colloquially having chats to clients who are first term buyers, that I think is a big driver of the market. It's people comparing the cost of renting versus their mortgage. Yeah. Now this is a conversation I'm actually like always having with first home buyers. And what I mean by that is at the final stages, once they've secured the property, we're going through our loan structure recommendation meeting, and we are just comparing, you know, what their cost is gonna be, show them what their new loan cost is gonna be per fortnight or per week or per month.

Daniel: They'll always compare it to their existing rent. Yeah. You know, naturally. Yeah. Naturally. And they'll say, oh, that's less than what we're paying now. Or it's 200 bucks more than what we're paying now. We can rent, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So keeping that in mind. Having met with the first home buyer population for the last 10 years, that is a big driver in purchasing confidence. You know, for first home buyers, is my costs gonna be comparable to my rent?

Rory: Yeah, sure. So if we look at a $800K mortgage now, 4.49%, you're looking at a repayment around four grand a month, and then, if you're looking at renting a three to four bedroom property for $950 a week, then you're looking at $3,900 a month, right?

Daniel: So now we're at this point, neck and neck, obviously we're gonna add on the extras. Yeah. Insurance and cost of being a homeowner. So add an extra 500 bucks to that. You know, but for an extra hundred bucks a month or a hundred bucks a week, 150 bucks a week, you're a homeowner. You're building equity in your position. Yeah. You know, it's achievable, isn't it?

Rory: Yeah. So that's the conversation I have with a lot of first home buyers when they make that comparison. As simple as it is, I think that's gonna see us bringing a lot of first home buyers back to the market, in the next 12 months.

Daniel: I always like to ask your thoughts, mate, because we sit here all the time. You listen to mortgage brokers talk every day with their customers. Yeah. Like what are you feeling? What's the market sentiment? The clients that you are talking to? Are things getting more positive out there? Like what do you thinking?

Rory: Well, obviously interest rates coming down as positive news. Yeah. For everybody that owns a home. Yeah. Or is looking to buy, it's interesting that it's off the back of retracting economy. That's, and, you know, unemployment in some areas is difficult.

Rory: I was talking to an Uber driver yesterday actually, and he's a software developer.

Daniel: You would chat up to Uber driver. Look, you know. Were you in the Uber? Or?

Rory: I was in the Uber. Oh, yeah, yeah. He wasn't a client. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and he's a software developer in New Zealand, and that was an interesting market where he, you know, he's two years experienced. There's just no roles out there. Yeah. For that level, it's all senior positions. Yeah. Yet he is saying there's no senior people available because they're gonna Australia. For better money. So we've seen that, you know, and you hear the government, well, particularly Labour, talking about how many Kiwis are moving to Australia.

Rory: So it's mixed news, I think. I think it's great for a lot of people, for Kiwis that are staying here and that are, you know, buying property. It's good, you know, hopefully it's gonna give people a little bit more freedom in terms of their disposable income and things like that. Yeah, so I like it. I think it's good, but you know, it's like a bit of a double-edged sword 'cause of the reason why it's happening. Sure. Yeah.

Daniel: I a hundred percent agree. Like and you mentioned those, those numbers about people shifting to Australia. I think we had our worst net migration last month of all time. Yeah. People permanently migrating from New Zealand's, which is a real shame. 'Cause I just think there's so much opportunity here or there. There is. If we can just get on a really good wicket, you know, and get some good momentum going. Yeah. I think it just comes down to what you said, like, businesses need confidence to employ people.

Daniel: So we need to bring the interest rates down. We need to stimulate the economy. We need to get things moving. Yeah. So that these businesses have the confidence to employ people. Sure.

Rory: We're in a difficult spot, New Zealand a little bit because we do have Big Brother over the ditch. Yeah. Tantalizing people.

Daniel: Tantalizing people. Yeah. And again to this Uber driver, he said, you know, the Australian recruiters are more than happy to pluck people outta New Zealand. Yeah. They love it. Such a similar culture and good talent, similar workplaces, good talent. Yeah. Language, you know, we're a great talent pool for Australia. Yeah. So they really got their hands in our pockets. Yeah. So to speak, when it comes to talent. So, it's a challenge for New Zealand to stimulate growth in the economy and for the government to do so with projects and such. And yeah, get jobs on the map here and good paying jobs and yeah, no, for sure.

Rory: I don't have the solution.

Daniel: They've got their work cut out for them aye. Yeah, you want to do, you wanna stimulate it, but you're also so mindful of how can we still keep the economy effective and efficient and not let us get to what things got in COVID. You know, we had these ridiculously low interest rates. Government was throwing cash everywhere and then you just get this lazy economy that's falsely propped up.

Rory: Yeah.

Daniel: Then you know when the rates go up, when things change and you start to realize we're actually not being efficient. Rates have to come up, you know, to stop inflation. Yeah. Yeah. You just wanna keep things so tight and I mean, at the end of the day. We don't need a big economy. We just need an effective and efficient one, you know?

Rory: Sure. There you go. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.

Daniel: So that's enough of my rant, mate. But there we've put our line in the sand, yeah, 0.5% cut on the OCR, which we're super excited. For our existing clients, like honestly, it's such a relief just in the fixed rate reviews, giving some good news, you know?

Rory: Yeah, yeah. It's coming down 'cause it's been two years of, Hey mate, your repayments going up. You've got less money to feed your kids now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a, so now we're back.

Daniel: Yeah. Back baby. So it's really, the downward trend is real. Yeah. So we're pretty confident we can see a drop coming up next week.

Rory: What about in sort of six weeks time, do you think this continues downward if you wanna make a long range call, or is that not enough information for you to speculate that far out?

Daniel: Look, I think it does, I think it goes at least 0.25 again. Yeah. You know, fall forward because where we need to get to. I just think that with those numbers in our face about net migration and the negative GDP again. So many negative quarters over the last five years. We're just gonna have to get a bit serious about stimulus, you know? Yeah. So I think again, points probably 0.25 for the next one.

Rory: Alright. You heard it here first, ladies and gentlemen, I'm making all the, just I pulled that out of you aye, I'm being bold. Yeah. Oh, that's what I'm doing. So, hopefully that works out.

The Case for Insuring Your Wealth

Rory: But mate, I really wanna move into the next part of our chat because you've been working on some awesome numbers, which I really love, and it's like a big part of our business that when you, I hear you having these conversations with people, I just get so excited. 'Cause I feel like we're really nailing that holistic part of advice for people. Yeah. And what I mean by that is, okay, mortgage cut out works cut out for us, get the best interest rates, give some advice on structure, give them a long-term plan, but then with the insurance and protecting their wealth and actually forecasting.

Rory: You want to end up the legacy, you wanna leave your family, that's where you come in. And I just love the idea of being able to put through a plan that's like no matter what happens, your legacy's almost locked in. You know what I mean? Yeah. So can you just give us a rundown of what we're gonna look at today?

Daniel: Yeah. So we're gonna, hopefully people will stay tuned for this segment, as we dive into insurance.

Rory: Mate, what are you talking about? No, they will. You're Mr. Insurance. People will yeah, people will come. People will come just to hear this mate.

Daniel: We're gonna put a little bit of a different spin on it. 'Cause you know, oftentimes when we are talking about risk, it's protecting the downside. And especially in, you know, health where the risk is ill health and loss of life and loss of income. Yeah. You know, we look at a lot of scenarios where either two people, you know, jointly on a loan, and both those incomes are crucial for servicing not only the loan, but other essential household costs.

Daniel: We look at scenarios where, what happens if one of those incomes was lost, and how do we cover it? Yeah. This example is sort of flipping it on its head. Yeah. Where we're gonna be, we're flipping the script, we're flipping it. So, and I think in any case you could do this. But we're talking about protecting the upside.

Daniel: Yeah. So. We've got a example here where we've got professional couple, they're both in their forties. We've got a couple of young children and they're in a really good position. So they're well healed. They, yeah. Look, it's, we'd all love to be in this position. So they've got a $2.4 million home. They've got no debt. Yeah. So they're not a mortgage client. Yeah. And they've got about $2.6 million in cash and investments. Yeah.

Daniel: So now we're talking about, this is our sort of, you know, later stage family, you know, they've worked hard, they've invested really well. They've paid their debt down. And they're at a new plateau.

Rory: That's right. You know, they've got a net worth of $5 million. Yeah. Yeah. They've got household income of $400K. And the question that they've come to me with is, do we need insurance? Yeah. And this is a common question and it's good to address it in kind of an extreme example where someone's got such a good net wealth. Yeah. 'Cause we get this where people say, I've got a hundred thousand dollars in savings. Yeah. You know, I'm self-insuring. Yeah. But I also have a million dollars in debt. Yeah. You know?

Rory: Yeah. The two scenarios we look at the most, premature death and loss of life. So we've got the scenario. We will look at, we'll look at Dad. Yep. So he is bringing in 250K before tax. Pretty healthy income. And that's about $163,000 after tax. So I mentioned that they're 40 years old. We're gonna assume they're gonna retire at age 60. They wanna retire at age 60. They've got 20 year runway until retirement.

Rory: Yep. This family is like comprehensively insured. So they've got, you know, the whole family's got medical insurance, and they've got risk benefits as well. So, looking at dad's cover, he's got $910,000 of life insurance. Yep. $300,000 of permanent disability. Yep. $200,000 of trauma cover. And now, yeah, $98,000 of agreed value income protection.

Daniel: Is that, that's before tax or that's his,

Rory: That's agreed value. Yeah. Yeah. So that's not tax, that's, you'll get that, that's received on claim. Yeah. So that's the risk benefits, and mom's got similar coverage. They spend 2.3% of gross household income. So that's a pretty good band. Like a normal band for people to be spending. 2.3%.

Daniel: Yeah, that's, come on. That's really not that much, like, that's less than your Kiwisaver.

Rory: It's not that much. I mean, their income is, you know, like gross income is 400K, so it's still, you know, almost $10,000. Per year. So it's not a insignificant expense. Yeah. But yeah, generally 1.5 to 3% of gross household income is what we'd suggest. Yeah. Particularly for the first home buyer.

Rory: Let's look at scenario number one. Dad gets a permanent illness. Yeah. He never returns to the corporate world again. He's out. Income's gone. Okay. Yeah. So his after tax income's 13,600. If we project that over 20 years, assuming that his salary increased by 2% a year, that total loss of income over the next 20 years is $4 million. That the family's just not gonna earn. That's just gone. And that's just the earnings. Yeah. Like, we're not actually calculating what they do with their money, which in this case is obviously invest. Yeah. Yeah. So the true loss would be much, much higher than that. Yeah.

Rory: And so the position where they're at now. You know, I said if this, if you lose your income, you're not gonna lose the roof over your head. Yeah. And you're probably not gonna have a bad life. No. They've got enough that they could keep going. But your legacy will be impacted. Your wealth at retirement will be significantly impacted if we lose this.

Rory: So they're losing $4 million. So looking at what they've got insurance wise, they have $500,000 in lump sum. So they don't actually need that money to cover any household costs. They've got medical insurance, so if they invested it at 8% over 20 years. That's $2.3 million roughly. Yep. Just from taking that immediate lump sum that gets paid straight into their account. Oh, that's their trauma and their TPD combined. Yep. So, and they can just go put it alongside their other investments. Yep. 8%, that's $2.3 million. Now the income protections index as well. Yep. So that $98,000 a year increasing by 2% per year is about $2.4 million. In 20 years. Wow. So the total insurance value is $4.7 million.

Daniel: So they lose four. We've ensured them to cover up $4.7 million.

Rory: Yeah, pretty good.

Protecting the Upside of Your Legacy

Daniel: I, that's incredible. So this is why I just really wanted to have this conversation today again, is like we talk about this idea of self insuring. And you're in a position where, okay, yes, something happens. You can sell off one property, access to one asset, and then you're debt free. But then your legacy is you were debt free. You know what I mean? Yeah. Your legacy is that you left your family with, you know, one paid off house or that you probably had to sell in retirement to fund your healthcare in retirement. Yeah. You know, whereas something like this. This is an extreme example 'cause these people are already very wealthy.

Rory: Correct. We wanna break it down to, you know, a couple with a mortgage and just one house. If something happens. Even if they had a KiwiSaver, they could cash in, declare the debt, what's next for you. You know, people would say, oh my house is my retirement plan. Well then, you're gonna have bills when you retire. You know?

Daniel: Absolutely. The income is so crucial. Yeah, and it's also being able to. You could set, you can set this up for two to 3% of your income. You can set this up where you are, you know, you're bulletproof. You're bulletproof to leaving your legacy. Yeah. That you're working so hard for. You know what I mean?

Daniel: If you talk about like what motivates people to go to work, people say, oh, it's their children, it's their family. It's their legacy. Yeah. Correct. Then like, if you're not doing this. You are not serious about it, to be honest.

Rory: It's people, I think just turned a blind eye to risk, it's almost like considering it as just part of your portfolio if you like. If your house is exactly, yeah.

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. And that's sort of like the example that we're using here. It's a small percentage. It's always a small percentage. Yeah. And we are always factor in affordability and we're constantly recalibrating client's policies. Yeah. Year in, year out. Yeah. So that they're affordable and it's, we get the mix that suits a client and fits the budget.

Rory: Yeah. That's the key point. A lot of people go, it's just like, it's a waste of money or I don't need it. But no one knows that. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I always, I say like, have you, are you driving a car? You know, so yeah. Have you got it insured? It's like, why? Yeah. You're not insuring your income, but you're insuring your $15,000 car.

Daniel: Yeah. Cancel that now and save the money. Yeah. Like that's your attitude. Yeah. Literally. Literally.

Daniel: And then if you literally think about it like. This figure of what he's gonna earn for the rest of his, his biggest asset that he owns is not the house, it's not anything else. It's his ability to make an income, you know?

Rory: Absolutely. It's the 4 million bucks that's coming. So if he's can't insure the 4 million bucks, but he is ensuring like the house and the car, which is worth 2 million and the house, and the car's worth 50 grand. What's going on? We've got our priorities all messed up. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Rory: Inside that 4 million, obviously we got your 6% KiwiSaver contributions, yours and your employers. That's gonna compound into what, you know, 500,000, come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. We're actually just not addressing the bigger issue here, which is, your forecasting something that's not guaranteed to you.

Daniel: That's right. This example I sort of said the next 10 years are probably critical. Yeah. You know, you've got, the kids are young, they're like young, primary school age. Yeah. We talked about the income and the impact that would have on, you know, what their wealth looks like in 20 years time.

Daniel: After 10 years, that shifts so much. Yeah. You know, so like that's 10 years of this income and this wealth growing. It may, they may be in a position where they're like, okay, I'm comfortable accepting this. Might not, I might not get the dream outcome. And so you could recalibrate at that point, and wind down some of the coverage potentially, but at the same time. You might not as well.

Rory: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I've got a client, really lovely couple, and he's had lung cancer diagnosis five years ago and he's had full income, he had the works, full income protection cover, TBD. He's buying investment properties. Yeah, he's going through chemo and he's growing his wealth, you know, incredible.

Rory: Which is a testament to the situation that yes, horrible things happen to us. You know, life it's not guaranteed, but what we can do is actually set up our financial futures for the next generation that is guaranteed. Yeah. You know, we know the things that work, we know investing in the markets, we can guarantee you eight, 10%. Like that's almost lock. Yeah.

Daniel: So let's get everything else on the same wavelength so you guys can just get a really secure outlook on the rest of your life, you know? Yeah. And what you're gonna hand over. So, no, this is just really exciting to me, and, you know, myself and Sarah on a very similar plan. It's just makes me really excited about the future and being able to be a bit more fearless, you know, not like, you know what I mean? Like, not just like feeling. Feeling looked after, you know?

Rory: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Nah, I love that, Dan. Yeah, a hundred percent. Let's finish this off quickly because it's sort of like same scenario where if one of them passed away or dad in this situation, again, it's total loss of income. Yeah. So his income's gone forever. So the loss is the same $4 million. The insurance coverage we have for this example is $910,000 of life insurance. Yep. So mom's still got her income. If we took the $910,000 again, invested it at 8% over 20 years, the net result is $4.2 million. So that's not truly replacing this income. 'Cause again, we're not factoring in what they do with that income. Yeah. But it's still making a difference.

Daniel: It's something very significant. Yeah.

Rory: It is significant. Yeah. So this was a good case of, you know, clients who did not need net insurance per se. You know, the health insurance was never negotiated. It was always important to them. Yeah. But it was like, do we need these other benefits? And this is the conversation we had and it was really like, I just put it to them and gave them the option, like I said, this is a small allocation of your household income. Yeah. This is what it looks like. You don't need it, you're not gonna lose your house. Yeah. But they really got the protecting the upside. And the fact that it was a small percentage of their income. Yeah. That it was worth allocating.

Daniel: Well, you can see that. I mean, you don't get this wealthy net worth of 5 million without you know, keeping value in investing and that idea of constantly investing, you know, they wouldn't have got this far unless they valued that premise. Yeah. Of how important it's that even if something does horrible happens to them, they're not just gonna stop going, we're still gonna, you know?

Rory: Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah.

Daniel: Oh, so excited. So there we have it. It's, we see it all the time. Aye, and this like, as we see this is an extreme case, but you know, people get themselves into good positions. Yeah. And to various degrees. And not everybody, like lot of our clients are insured and we don't push insurance down anybody's throats.

Rory: Yeah. We move on to the people that want to be protected a hundred percent. And I have conversations every week just about with people that are like, nah, yeah, I don't need this. Yeah. It's like, that's fine. That's all good. I'll explain it to them and then move on. Yeah. And it's okay, but, you know, people work hard to get themselves into a good position. Yeah. It's worth protecting, you know?

Daniel: Oh, just without a doubt, man. No, it's super, super important. Everyone's just on their own journey, you know? Everyone's on their own. And that's what the best thing I think about is that, every insurance recommendation is completely different, you know?

Rory: Yeah. Absolutely. The same products, but different varying amounts and different plans. And so that's why I find it the most exciting about it, is like, it makes you ask yourself those tough questions. Like, what do I actually want? What does the future look like for me? You know? Yeah. And we answer them. We answer them here at Blueprint, which is so fun.

Daniel: A hundred percent. Mate, such a pleasure doing this poddy with you. This is, no, I think this is, you know, number 14 or something. Yeah. On the road to a hundred. Yeah. We'll keep it going.

Rory: Yeah. Yeah. That's great Dan. Always a pleasure mate. Thanks guys.